russians?

[Floof]

Vinnie--Thanks for the input. I'd heard the same on another thread regarding Russian breeding, that multiple males seems to bring more success. I'm debating on keeping two of them, depending on if I can sell the smallest male and find another couple females at a good price, but the thing around here is, male Russians are everywhere on the classifieds and females are nowhere to be found... I'd rather sell my 2 extra males, reinvest that money into females to round out the group, and worry about getting another male later on. There's definitely no shortage of males in this area, but the moment you see a female hit the classifieds, it's gone in no time!

 

[CactusVinnie]

Yes, I think that the guys in Uzbekistan- or God knows where else- that sell the tortoises incubate the eggs at lower temps, both from safety and commercial reasons. I always heared about so many males!
They are not quite farmers/breeders, they just round-up lots of females from the wild, inject them with oxytocin to have them lay eggs simultaneously, then release them and incubate the eggs/raising the youngs up to 10cm and sell them. Of course, not the best food- lots of protein for fast growth.
Anyway, it is better than other sources that just collect them from the wild.
Good luck!

 

[GBtortoises]

Yes, I think that the guys in Uzbekistan- or God knows where else- that sell the tortoises incubate the eggs at lower temps, both from safety and commercial reasons. I always heared about so many males!
They are not quite farmers/breeders, they just round-up lots of females from the wild, inject them with oxytocin to have them lay eggs simultaneously, then release them and incubate the eggs/raising the youngs up to 10cm and sell them. Of course, not the best food- lots of protein for fast growth.
Anyway, it is better than other sources that just collect them from the wild.
Good luck!

Removing eggs from gravid females is the same thing as collecting tortoises from the wild! By doing so, they are in effect, eliminating generations of tortoises. The only difference in doing it that way is that they don't have the cost of having to maintain the adults year round-a big savings when you're in a "business" like that. It's the same if you go out and pick apples from a tree in the wild rather than planting, raising and caring for a tree in your back yard to produce apples. Same end result, alot less cost and work.

So far the only proof of "farms" in Eastern Europe have all turned out to be exactly as you described above. Those aren't farms, they are collection facilities. I grew up on a farm. Real farms, regardless of the animal or plant that you're talking about, maintain their stock in good quality conditions year round in order to generate a consistent crop or product. Not collect from the wild, extract the product and then release back the "donor" back into the wild.

 

[grogansilver]

(they just round-up lots of females from the wild, inject them with oxytocin to have them lay eggs simultaneously.)
"what"? I'm using a tape recorder to Breed these guys and how come nobody's until now has come to fail to mention this oxytocin exists!!! where do i get it?

 

[Floof]

grogansilver, oxytocin just induces egg laying. The females they collect are already gravid... Oxytocin is hardly a breeding aid, unless you have an eggbound animal.

Ugh. I'm with GB. Taking eggs may be easily as bad as collecting from the wild.. So much for the next generation of breeders!!

Gah... And an example of what I was saying about males being SO plentiful, but females non-existant around here... A good-sized female (and her 10 gallon tank, ugh) came up on the local classifieds earlier this week (at $80 for the whole deal--pretty good price!). I emailed an hour after the ad was posted up, never got an answer, and it's already been marked "Sold" just a couple days later. Then at the same time there was one just labelled "Female" that was gone within a couple days, too... But there's still around 4 male russians still up waiting to be sold--including my two extras who've been up for about 2 weeks now with no bites. sigh... It's insane the difference just the sex of your tortoise can make, when you're trying to sell.

 

[grogansilver]

grogansilver, oxytocin just induces egg laying. The females they collect are already gravid... Oxytocin is hardly a breeding aid, unless you have an eggbound animal.

Ugh. I'm with GB. Taking eggs may be easily as bad as collecting from the wild.. So much for the next generation of breeders!!

Gah... And an example of what I was saying about males being SO plentiful, but females non-existant around here... A good-sized female (and her 10 gallon tank, ugh) came up on the local classifieds earlier this week (at $80 for the whole deal--pretty good price!). I emailed an hour after the ad was posted up, never got an answer, and it's already been marked "Sold" just a couple days later. Then at the same time there was one just labelled "Female" that was gone within a couple days, too... But there's still around 4 male russians still up waiting to be sold--including my two extras who've been up for about 2 weeks now with no bites. sigh... It's insane the difference just the sex of your tortoise can make, when you're trying to sell.

Floof i have something nice right now in the trade and bart area you interested it a beauty ill do better on the price take a look! by the way i made a mistake with this posting! sorry but the other thing i mentioned is real look!

 

[ForestExotics]

At the current rate of importation wild Russian tortoises probably only have two avenues to take-population depletion to the point of threatened existance of the species or human intervention in a positive manner. By that I mean regulating their collection and importation. It's doubtful that their collection will be regulated at their source. People in those areas have more important things to worry about and for some, collecting tortoises is an income that feeds their family. I hate to say it and would hate to have it come to this point but if the U.S. were to ban their importation into our country it would eventually help the wild populations. Several thousand Russians are imported into the U.S. alone each year. All of those are between 4-5". Importers try to skirt the 4" mark as much as possible in order to ship more tortoises in the same crate. By collecting and shipping only one size you are essentially removing an entire generation from the wild. They are shipped in such large numbers, so cheaply that they have replaced the green iguana and Red Ear Slider as the pet shop "staple" reptile. Indicated very prominately by them being sold in large chains like Petco and PetSmart.

So true!