Tony the Tort42
Active Member
@Tom how would you try to stop this pyramiding?
Shell Is Dented
- Thread starter Chelsey_Venter
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Chelsey_Venter
Member
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Tony the Tort42
Active Member
Looks VERY dry. The enclosure should be a closed chamber, with 80% humidity. The tortoise should also have a dish big enough to soak in at all times. That is your answer to why he has a bumpy shell.
Chelsey_Venter
Member
I keep it spritzed to keep dust down. I had no idea they were soakers. There is very contradicting information on the internet. At hatchling age I knew they needed a closed enclosure, I didnt think they needed it at this age.
There is a lot of contradicting info. That is for sure. We've been doing tortoises all wrong for 30+ years. Treating them like desert animals and giving them our interpretation of what that means in our overly dry indoor enclosures.
Sulcatas hatch during the rainy season. For 3-4 months over there it is wet, humid, and puddles and marshes form everywhere. They are NOT desert animals. They live in forest edge areas and grasslands. It takes a lot of annual rainfall to maintain forests and grasslands.
What about the dry season? Sulcatas live in burrows, underground, away from the heat and dryness at the surface. The poop and pee, and also drag wet green vegetation into their burrows.
Desert conditions don't suit them. Desert conditions kill a large percentage of them.
Pyramiding has nothing to do with food or supplements. Pyramiding is caused by growth in conditions that are too dry. There is no magical age when this ends. If they are growing, and things are too dry, they can pyramid at any age. It does become less likely Ince they get some size on them, but yours hasn't reached that size.
I'm sorry. All the books and websites have it wrong. Me and so many others banged our heads against that wall for decades before figuring this all out. Now we know better, but many people don't.
What type of bulbs are in that double hood? What type of UV bulb are you using? How do you maintain ambient temps in the rest of that enclosure away from the heat lamps?
The indentation does look like MBD, but MBD is usually on both sides and somewhat symmetrical.
The orchard grass is good. Alfalfa is okay in small amounts once in a while, and as long as you are soaking the tortoise regularly. Strawberries and other sugary fruits should never be fed to them. Same with carrots. Too much sugar. Its not good for their gut flora and fauna. Here is a list of good foods to feed:
tortoiseforum.org
Feel free to question all of this. I'm happy to explain further.
Sulcatas hatch during the rainy season. For 3-4 months over there it is wet, humid, and puddles and marshes form everywhere. They are NOT desert animals. They live in forest edge areas and grasslands. It takes a lot of annual rainfall to maintain forests and grasslands.
What about the dry season? Sulcatas live in burrows, underground, away from the heat and dryness at the surface. The poop and pee, and also drag wet green vegetation into their burrows.
Desert conditions don't suit them. Desert conditions kill a large percentage of them.
Pyramiding has nothing to do with food or supplements. Pyramiding is caused by growth in conditions that are too dry. There is no magical age when this ends. If they are growing, and things are too dry, they can pyramid at any age. It does become less likely Ince they get some size on them, but yours hasn't reached that size.
I'm sorry. All the books and websites have it wrong. Me and so many others banged our heads against that wall for decades before figuring this all out. Now we know better, but many people don't.
What type of bulbs are in that double hood? What type of UV bulb are you using? How do you maintain ambient temps in the rest of that enclosure away from the heat lamps?
The indentation does look like MBD, but MBD is usually on both sides and somewhat symmetrical.
The orchard grass is good. Alfalfa is okay in small amounts once in a while, and as long as you are soaking the tortoise regularly. Strawberries and other sugary fruits should never be fed to them. Same with carrots. Too much sugar. Its not good for their gut flora and fauna. Here is a list of good foods to feed:
For Those Who Have a Young Sulcata...
Over and over I type up and answer diet questions and try to get people feeding the right stuff, but I find that the "norm" is grocery store food. Grocery store food is expensive, a hassle to obtain, and very low on the list of what is best for sulcatas. These tortoises are GRASS eaters. From...
tortoiseforum.org
Feel free to question all of this. I'm happy to explain further.
Chelsey_Venter
Member
There is a lot of contradicting info. That is for sure. We've been doing tortoises all wrong for 30+ years. Treating them like desert animals and giving them our interpretation of what that means in our overly dry indoor enclosures.
Sulcatas hatch during the rainy season. For 3-4 months over there it is wet, humid, and puddles and marshes form everywhere. They are NOT desert animals. They live in forest edge areas and grasslands. It takes a lot of annual rainfall to maintain forests and grasslands.
What about the dry season? Sulcatas live in burrows, underground, away from the heat and dryness at the surface. The poop and pee, and also drag wet green vegetation into their burrows.
Desert conditions don't suit them. Desert conditions kill a large percentage of them.
Pyramiding has nothing to do with food or supplements. Pyramiding is caused by growth in conditions that are too dry. There is no magical age when this ends. If they are growing, and things are too dry, they can pyramid at any age. It does become less likely Ince they get some size on them, but yours hasn't reached that size.
I'm sorry. All the books and websites have it wrong. Me and so many others banged our heads against that wall for decades before figuring this all out. Now we know better, but many people don't.
What type of bulbs are in that double hood? What type of UV bulb are you using? How do you maintain ambient temps in the rest of that enclosure away from the heat lamps?
The indentation does look like MBD, but MBD is usually on both sides and somewhat symmetrical.
The orchard grass is good. Alfalfa is okay in small amounts once in a while, and as long as you are soaking the tortoise regularly. Strawberries and other sugary fruits should never be fed to them. Same with carrots. Too much sugar. Its not good for their gut flora and fauna. Here is a list of good foods to feed:
For Those Who Have a Young Sulcata...
Over and over I type up and answer diet questions and try to get people feeding the right stuff, but I find that the "norm" is grocery store food. Grocery store food is expensive, a hassle to obtain, and very low on the list of what is best for sulcatas. These tortoises are GRASS eaters. From...
Feel free to question all of this. I'm happy to explain further.
It's a mercury vapor UVA UVB bulb and the other is a ceramic bulb that is for heat at night. The UVB bulb is on from 6am to 6pm and the ceramic is the other 12 hours. I don't feed her carrots and strawberries very often. It's more if a treat type thing. Is his pyramiding bad?
I keep his substrate damp but not wet because I feared shell rot.
The room is kept warm with a space heater. It's around the mid 70s in that room at all times.
Chelsey_Venter
Member
I'm sorry I keep getting his/her mixed up. All this time with thought he was a girl, we just recently found out it's a him.
I'm very glad you've found us, and your tortoise will be too. You've gotten a lot of the old, incorrect wrong info that still pervades the culture. Please give these a read through. This will correct most of the wrong stuff you've found:
https://tortoiseforum.org/threads/beginner-mistakes.45180/
https://tortoiseforum.org/threads/how-to-raise-a-healthy-sulcata-or-leopard-version-2-0.79895/
https://tortoiseforum.org/threads/for-those-who-have-a-young-sulcata.76744/
There are four elements to heating and lighting:
https://tortoiseforum.org/threads/beginner-mistakes.45180/
https://tortoiseforum.org/threads/how-to-raise-a-healthy-sulcata-or-leopard-version-2-0.79895/
https://tortoiseforum.org/threads/for-those-who-have-a-young-sulcata.76744/
There are four elements to heating and lighting:
- Basking bulb. I use 65 watt floods from the hardware store. I run them on a timer and adjust the height to get the correct basking temp under them. You can mount a fixture on the ceiling, or hang a dome lamp from the ceiling. Go lower or higher wattage if this makes the enclosure too hot or not warm enough. Do not use "spot" bulbs, mercury vapor bulbs or halogen bulbs because these bulbs are overly desiccating and cause pyramiding even in good living conditions.
- Ambient heat maintenance. I use ceramic heating elements or radiant heat panels set on thermostats to maintain ambient above 80 degrees day and night for tropical species like sulcatas or leopards. I like this thermostat: https://www.lllreptile.com/products/13883-zilla-1000-watt-temperature-controller. Put the probe in the coolest corner away from all heating elements. You may need more than one heating element to spread the heat out for a given enclosure.
- Light. I use florescent tubes for this purpose. Something in the 5000-6500K color range will look the best. Most tubes at the store are in the 2500K range and they look yellowish. I've been using LEDs lately and they are great, and run cooler than a florescent. This can be set on the same timer as the basking bulb.
- UV. If you can get your tortoise outside for an hour 2 or 3 times a week, you won't need indoor UV. If you want it anyway, get one of the newer HO type fluorescent tubes. I like the ZooMed 10.0 HO, and the Arcadia 12% HO. Which type will depend on mounting height. It helps to have a UV meter to test and see what your bulb is actually putting out at your mounting height. Plexi-glass or screen tops will filter out some or all of the UV produced by your bulb.
Chelsey_Venter
Member
Thank you so much. I thought I was doing everything right ??♀️ it's overwhelming the amount of information on the internet. I am starting on changes and hopefully I can him back on the right path.
Can you send me the links to the outdoor enclosures. I am going to start on his outdoor enclosure soon and I was wanting some ideas.
Here are three good ways to do it for a baby:
http://www.tortoiseforum.org/threads/cheap-easy-simple-sunning-enclosure.14680/
http://www.tortoiseforum.org/threads/simple-sunning-enclosure.104351/
http://www.tortoiseforum.org/thread...table-but-safe-outdoor-baby-enclosures.30683/
Outdoor enclosures
Trying to build a outdoor enclosure and need advice my sulcata tork is two months old I was wondering if cinder blocks would work for the sides and how to go about constructing it ... Also what things could be used for predator protection? Any tips or help greatly appricated thanks
tortoiseforum.org
Something has happened to this tortoise's shell to cause that indentation. We have no way of knowing what that event was. But no amount of humidity or intervention is going to fix it at this point. It looks like the bone has been injured under the keratin. You can add humidity and that will help the new growth to come in smoother and less bumpy, but the indent is never going to go away due to the underlying injury. I could hazard a guess and say his shell was squished on that side when he was smaller and more pliable, like caught in a door as it was closing. Something like that.
Chelsey_Venter
Member
He stayed in his enclosure at all times when he was little and pliable. Thankfully the indention doesnt hinder his walking at all and I pray his insides are ok. It's been about two years since it started developing.
Chelsey_Venter
Member
I can't see any of the pictures, it says something about Tinypics ?Here are three good ways to do it for a baby:
http://www.tortoiseforum.org/threads/cheap-easy-simple-sunning-enclosure.14680/
http://www.tortoiseforum.org/threads/simple-sunning-enclosure.104351/
http://www.tortoiseforum.org/thread...table-but-safe-outdoor-baby-enclosures.30683/
Outdoor enclosures
Trying to build a outdoor enclosure and need advice my sulcata tork is two months old I was wondering if cinder blocks would work for the sides and how to go about constructing it ... Also what things could be used for predator protection? Any tips or help greatly appricated thanks
Tony the Tort42
Active Member
Yeah those pictures are gone unfortunately. I'm sorry this is so stressful. Were just here to help your tortoise. Pyramiding itself is not bad, but the reason it occurs it bad. Your guy will not die from it, he can still grow up to be a happy tortoise.
Chelsey_Venter
Member
I just want to raise him right and there is such a plethora of information out there and most of it's wrong. I had no idea this forum existed until a few days ago and I'm so thankful to have found all of you with so many years experience.
All the pics are gone from the previous threads, but here is a little enclosure made of slumpstone block to give you an example. For a sulcata, a box this size would work for a long time. This enclosure is divided, but you can imagine it without the divider.
Chelsey_Venter
Member
That looks easy enough! I want to put some sort of chicken wire above and around the enclosure because I live in Texas and we have critters.
Do your tortoises have any problems with the ramps?
No problems with the ramps.
I live out in the country too. Same critters that you have in TX. Shouldn't be an issue, but you can enclose the enclosure if you want to. Chicken wire won't keep the critters out very well. Raccoons and coyotes will go right through it. Welded wire is the way to go.
I made these enclosures to keep big monitor lizards IN, but now I use them for my star tortoises:
The sulcatas, leopards and everything else live in uncovered pens.
I also found pics of another easy to do small enclosure:
Chelsey_Venter
Member
That second one is very doable! Have a soaking place for him and a shady spot. What plants do people plant in outside enclosures for Sulcatas. I have the spineless cactus growing in my backyard that he loves to eat.
Up in post #28 on this thread, I linked a thread with a whole list of things you could plant. Most anything you plant inside the enclosure will be trampled and eaten. Usually you have to plant things outside the enclosure and just feed it to them. Mulberry trees are great for inside the enclosure. Heavy shade in summer, no shade in winter. Excellent tortoise food for half the year.
