Should this animal be euthanized?

[EricIvins]

regarding breeding I do know of a online site that purposely breeds (or tries to at least) one eye RES and then tries to sell them for like 1000. I honestly don't know how successful they are in selling them. The blindness is some sort of genetic thing with this particular RES.

Way off topic, but they don't breed anything.........I know where those animals come from, and there is no one specifically pairing them up to produce eyeless hatchlings........

Bottom line, don't believe everything you read........If there is one thing that company can do, its mass marketing, not Turtle breeding.......

 

[TylerStewart]

It's sad that people think humans are of more value than animals, if there were no animals on the planet, would we have meat for our diet? Milk for our children? We all run out of natural human milk at some point, then what do we do? Would we have wool for our sweaters? Fleece is alright, but what if we run out? When global warming becomes a major major problem, we may have to use animals for energy reasons. Excretement, belches, running power and transport are jobs that few humans would want to do. Animals help us more than you think. We take them for granted. We sell them for money to live, we do that with crops too, but what provides us with the fertiliser to grow them? Animals. We would be extinct without animals. There are some people who clearly don't appreciate them at all. Let the turtle live. It may one day save our lives.

---

Do you swat a fly? step on a cockroach? spray ants?

I thought you were nice, emysemys. Clearly not. And, FYI, I don't swat flies, I open windows to let them out. I don't get cockroaches, I live in England, but if I did, I would get it in a glass and set it free. I don't like ants, but I don't kill them. I love all living things, and always try my hardest not to kill them, even if they are insects, don't underestimate a 12 year old.

---

Sorry, I didn't know that I had suggested that we should kill all animals just because a human life is more valuable. My mistake, apparently.

We aren't back on the global warming thing again, are we? Really? We hit 22 degrees at my house last night, the second lowest low in Las Vegas in my lifetime that I can remember, besides last year when we hit 18. It's gonna take a few years of not freezing my butt off in record low temps to convince me to rethink the global warming thing. At first I thought you were just crazy, but then you said you were 12, so it all made sense.

For the record, Yvonne, I think you're a nice person, even though you squish bugs.

 

[Talka]

Actually, there are quite a few Buddhists to this day, and many believe in harming nothig animate.

Jaizei found it! Jainism!

---

It's sad that people think humans are of more value than animals, if there were no animals on the planet, would we have meat for our diet? Milk for our children? We all run out of natural human milk at some point, then what do we do? Would we have wool for our sweaters? Fleece is alright, but what if we run out? When global warming becomes a major major problem, we may have to use animals for energy reasons. Excretement, belches, running power and transport are jobs that few humans would want to do. Animals help us more than you think. We take them for granted. We sell them for money to live, we do that with crops too, but what provides us with the fertiliser to grow them? Animals. We would be extinct without animals. There are some people who clearly don't appreciate them at all. Let the turtle live. It may one day save our lives.

---

Do you swat a fly? step on a cockroach? spray ants?

I thought you were nice, emysemys. Clearly not. And, FYI, I don't swat flies, I open windows to let them out. I don't get cockroaches, I live in England, but if I did, I would get it in a glass and set it free. I don't like ants, but I don't kill them. I love all living things, and always try my hardest not to kill them, even if they are insects, don't underestimate a 12 year old.

---

Sorry, I didn't know that I had suggested that we should kill all animals just because a human life is more valuable. My mistake, apparently.

We aren't back on the global warming thing again, are we? Really? We hit 22 degrees at my house last night, the second lowest low in Las Vegas in my lifetime that I can remember, besides last year when we hit 18. It's gonna take a few years of not freezing my butt off in record low temps to convince me to rethink the global warming thing. At first I thought you were just crazy, but then you said you were 12, so it all made sense.

For the record, Yvonne, I think you're a nice person, even though you squish bugs.

---

Haha, every forum has a nutter. Glad to know I spotted this one early
Note to self: science is useless with this one

 

[Linzbragg]

In this wild this turtle(s) might die quickly bc it can't feed itself or get away from predators quick enough, but if a dedicated owner took some extra time, they'd do great I bet!

---

And did I not mention that this thread turned into my last semester ethics class...LOL

 

[tyler0912]

If it's not in pain, let it live, that's my motto. Why should it die if it's perfectly healthy apart from extra head? You wouldn't kill a conjoined human, so why kill this? It's sad that people think humans are of more value than animals, if there were no animals on the planet, would we have meat for our diet? Milk for our children? We all run out of natural human milk at some point, then what do we do? Would we have wool for our sweaters? Fleece is alright, but what if we run out? When global warming becomes a major major problem, we may have to use animals for energy reasons. Excretement, belches, running power and transport are jobs that few humans would want to do. Animals help us more than you think. We take them for granted. We sell them for money to live, we do that with crops too, but what provides us with the fertiliser to grow them? Animals. We would be extinct without animals. There are some people who clearly don't appreciate them at all. Let the turtle live. It may one day save our lives.

---

Do you swat a fly? step on a cockroach? spray ants?

I thought you were nice, emysemys. Clearly not. And, FYI, I don't swat flies, I open windows to let them out. I don't get cockroaches, I live in England, but if I did, I would get it in a glass and set it free. I don't like ants, but I don't kill them. I love all living things, and always try my hardest not to kill them, even if they are insects, don't underestimate a 12 year old.

---

Im' 13...I hit flies down.....I step on ants.....wait there too small for me to see....question was asked ''should this be euthanized?'' this is asking for oppinions and if you guys can't handle oppinions i suggest you leave the forum because your going to be getting a whole lot of oppinions here!
Yvonee is a nice woman and devoted her life to tortoises....do you think that she thinks less of these animals because they cant speak....have thumbs...HUH?!
Think about it before you go showing yourself up!

 

[dmmj]

regarding breeding I do know of a online site that purposely breeds (or tries to at least) one eye RES and then tries to sell them for like 1000. I honestly don't know how successful they are in selling them. The blindness is some sort of genetic thing with this particular RES.

Way off topic, but they don't breed anything.........I know where those animals come from, and there is no one specifically pairing them up to produce eyeless hatchlings........

Bottom line, don't believe everything you read........If there is one thing that company can do, its mass marketing, not Turtle breeding.......

I did not read it anywhere but the company's website. How truthful they were being I cannot say, but they stated they were producing a limited number of babies with the same trait as the father, and they were offering them at a huge marked up price.

 

[Neal]

WHAT?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?! ALL LIFE IS PRECIOUS!!!!!!!!! HUMANS ARE ANIMALS TOO, WE EVOLVED FROM APES, THE ONLY DIFFERENCE IS WE HAVE MORE DEVELOPED BRAINS!!!!!!!!!!! IF YOU THINK THAT ANIMAL LIVES ARE LESS VALUABLE THAN HUMAN LIVES WHEN COMPARED, THEN GET THE **** OUT OF MY VIEW BECAUSE PEOPLE LIKE YOU DON'T KNOW VALUE WHEN YOU SEE IT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

This is all a matter of opinion, and not everyone shares your views. If you are going to taunt and tell someone like me that I don't know value when I see it, well, I'm going to put myself in 'your view' if you get my drift...so here are my thoughts:

Value isn't so black in white, as in, you either value something or you don't. It's subjective, and as such it's a little more complex than that. I don't think anyone here has implied that animals are without value, just that a human life is more valuable than an animals.

I'm also of that mindset, but, do I treat animals like trash and hope they all disappear? Of course not, I think animals do have a lot of value and I have a great respect for all living things...I just think in terms of societal improvements and betterment's, humans have a lot more to provide than an animals do, and that's what I personally am most concerned about. As much as I hope my daughter grows up with a healthy interaction with the animal kingdom, I am primarily concerned with things like the state of the economy and the society as a whole that she grows up in...of which animals may play an insignificant role in my opinion.

 

[Terry Allan Hall]

May I, with all due respect, point out that you speak from a Judeo-Christian's "conceit/perspective"...not everyone shares that "disability", though.

Many faiths realize that we humans are no more or less valuable to the actual world than any other living being.

Not sure why this has anything to do with religion, but any person on earth and every government on earth is going to react differently to a person being shot and an ant being stepped on. I'm sorry you'd rather save the ant; that's your choice, but that doesn't make it okay.

The point you missed is that neither is really OK...Yes, I understand that your Judeo/Christian outlook, trained into you from birth (in all probability) leads you to believe that humans are of greater value than other forms of life...

You've been raised to believe that you're right, and it's hard for most people raised in those mindsets to outgrow them, obviously. Still, ALL life is of EQUAL value, and any other outlook is simply conceit, nothing more.


I was raised to understand that we're ALL part of the Earth, thus I do not kill bugs for convenience and never kill anything unless I will eat it (deer, etc.), and we who follow The Old Teachings respect and venerate even the creatures we do eat.

Taking ANY life is a very serious matter, one to be approached w/ a great deal of respectful thought.

Actually, there are quite a few Buddhists to this day, and many believe in harming nothig animate.

Jaizei found it! Jainism!

Jainism and Buddhism both share/teach veneration for ALL life, as do some other faiths.

 

[Neal]

You've been raised to believe that you're right, and it's hard for most people raised in those mindsets to outgrow them, obviously. Still, ALL life is of EQUAL value, and any other outlook is simply conceit, nothing more.

Holy condescending....lol....who are you to say that mindset is wrong as you've implied?

I don't agree with your statement that ALL life is created equal...does that make me right and you wrong...no way, it's not about being right or wrong, just different views on life based on the circumstances of how we were taught.

 

[TylerStewart]

The point you missed is that neither is really OK...Yes, I understand that your Judeo/Christian outlook, trained into you from birth (in all probability) leads you to believe that humans are of greater value than other forms of life...

Again, this has nothing to do with religion as much as you want to make it that way. Heaven forbid someone have a Christian outlook in a country that says "In God We Trust" on the back of the dollar bill. But you're right. I'll take down the fly paper in my dog run, and just ask the flies politely to leave my animals alone. I'll train my cat to carry random cockroaches across the street and urge them politely to invade the neighbor's house rather than mine, and instead of throwing a rock to get the pigeons off my roof, I'll climb up there and reason with them that the light pole across the street offers a better view.

Really, it's sad that we're having this conversation. Nobody suggested that animals have no value.

 

[Terry Allan Hall]

You've been raised to believe that you're right, and it's hard for most people raised in those mindsets to outgrow them, obviously. Still, ALL life is of EQUAL value, and any other outlook is simply conceit, nothing more.

Holy condescending....lol....who are you to say that mindset is wrong as you've implied?

I don't agree with your statement that ALL life is created equal...does that make me right and you wrong...no way, it's not about being right or wrong, just different views on life based on the circumstances of how we were taught.

The point you missed is that neither is really OK...Yes, I understand that your Judeo/Christian outlook, trained into you from birth (in all probability) leads you to believe that humans are of greater value than other forms of life...

Again, this has nothing to do with religion as much as you want to make it that way. Heaven forbid someone have a Christian outlook in a country that says "In God We Trust" on the back of the dollar bill. But you're right. I'll take down the fly paper in my dog run, and just ask the flies politely to leave my animals alone. I'll train my cat to carry random cockroaches across the street and urge them politely to invade the neighbor's house rather than mine, and instead of throwing a rock to get the pigeons off my roof, I'll climb up there and reason with them that the light pole across the street offers a better view.

Really, it's sad that we're having this conversation. Nobody suggested that animals have no value.

If I may respectfully remind you guys: This is a debate forum, where people (hopefully in a respectful manner) say what they honestly think...sorry you two don't like what I have to say.

 

[Neal]

If I may respectfully remind you guys: This is a debate forum, where people (hopefully in a respectful manner) say what they honestly think...sorry you two don't like what I have to say.

Come on now, how does patronizing someone's viewpoints contribute to a respectful meaningful debate?

 

[Terry Allan Hall]

You've been raised to believe that you're right, and it's hard for most people raised in those mindsets to outgrow them, obviously. Still, ALL life is of EQUAL value, and any other outlook is simply conceit, nothing more.

Holy condescending....lol....who are you to say that mindset is wrong as you've implied?

I don't agree with your statement that ALL life is created equal...does that make me right and you wrong...no way, it's not about being right or wrong, just different views on life based on the circumstances of how we were taught.

The point you missed is that neither is really OK...Yes, I understand that your Judeo/Christian outlook, trained into you from birth (in all probability) leads you to believe that humans are of greater value than other forms of life...

Again, this has nothing to do with religion as much as you want to make it that way. Heaven forbid someone have a Christian outlook in a country that says "In God We Trust" on the back of the dollar bill. But you're right. I'll take down the fly paper in my dog run, and just ask the flies politely to leave my animals alone. I'll train my cat to carry random cockroaches across the street and urge them politely to invade the neighbor's house rather than mine, and instead of throwing a rock to get the pigeons off my roof, I'll climb up there and reason with them that the light pole across the street offers a better view.

Really, it's sad that we're having this conversation. Nobody suggested that animals have no value.

If I may respectfully remind you guys: This is a debate forum, where people (hopefully in a respectful manner...mytwotortys just got a bit excited, I suspect) say what they honestly think...and I'm sorry you two don't like what I have to say.

---

If I may respectfully remind you guys: This is a debate forum, where people (hopefully in a respectful manner) say what they honestly think...sorry you two don't like what I have to say.

Come on now, how does patronizing someone's viewpoints contribute to a respectful meaningful debate?

Why do you feel I was patronizing you?

 

[Neal]

Take a look at your comment I quoted in post #49...

 

[TylerStewart]

+1 Reputation point for Neal.

 

[tyler0912]

+1 Reputation point for Neal.

+2 Reputation point for Neal.

 

[jackrat]

Taking ANY life is a very serious matter, one to be approached w/ a great deal of respectful thought.

I agree 100%,Terry.

 

[Mgridgaway]

Sorry, I didn't know that I had suggested that we should kill all animals just because a human life is more valuable. My mistake, apparently.

We aren't back on the global warming thing again, are we? Really? We hit 22 degrees at my house last night, the second lowest low in Las Vegas in my lifetime that I can remember, besides last year when we hit 18. It's gonna take a few years of not freezing my butt off in record low temps to convince me to rethink the global warming thing. At first I thought you were just crazy, but then you said you were 12, so it all made sense.

Not terribly interested in starting a debate on this, but I just wanted to clarify that the global warming moniker is a big muck up many people and news outlets have perpetuated for years. The big issue is global climate change. Yes, it starts with global warming, melting ice caps, poor polar bears, etc. But the end results are more dynamic weather in general, weather it be warmer or colder. Some of this has to do with the cooling of things like the gulf stream via melting ice caps (also salinity and sea levels), some have to deal with increased greenhouse gases.

There are only a few things I trust, but science is one of them. And when you have hundreds of intelligent scientists coming to the same conclusion, it may be something worth considering.

--

On the whole "human life is more precious" vs "all life is precious" issue: Of course we think human life is more precious. It's in our DNA and our social conscious to think so and we will continue to value our lives over other animals because it's in our best interest as a species. It doesn't mean I can't value other life. It just means that if I have to choose between my girlfriend or family member or whatever, or my dog... I'm sorry Wolfie, I'm going to choose the human every time.

But luckily, most of us won't have to face these dilemma. Most of us enjoy a lifestyle that allows us to appreciate animal life in addition to human life.

 

[Shelly]

ALL LIFE IS PRECIOUS!!!!!!!!! HUMANS ARE ANIMALS TOO, WE EVOLVED FROM APES, THE ONLY DIFFERENCE IS WE HAVE MORE DEVELOPED BRAINS!!!!!!

Humans did not evolve from apes. Humans and apes evolved from a common ancestor. And there are far more differences between humans and apes than a more developed brain. For instance, I am far less likely to fling my poop at visitors. But that's just me.

 

[dmmj]

![/quote]
For instance, I am far less likely to fling my poop at visitors. But that's just me.
[/quote]
Speak for yourself.