solid urate!!! help

[sportychick]

My Russian tort passed a urate that was solid..

What's the cause? Few days ago it was liquid with a few white dots in it and today like this... its also been +30 here and humid for past few days. I only soak every day when its hot other wise every other day is what I was doing. He also doesn't soak himself yet. He seems uninterested in the water dish...
Help please

 

[dmmj]

Are you sure it is urates and not a stone of some kind? if it is a solid urate, I would say he is dehydrated, that is the only thing I can come up with.

 

[sportychick]

I say urate because it was in his soak this morning and he let it out.

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I happened to see him do it so that's why I'm asking what it is.and what I can do to change it back to more liquid

 

[dmmj]

They also pass kidney stones and such when they soak, that is why I was asking.

 

[sportychick]

Hmmi don't know. How or why would he get/have a stone? And is this normal for them?

 

[ascott]

Hydrate hydrate hydrate...soaks daily for no less than thirty minutes..I would personally soak longer...also you can make sure he is getting enough fiber in his food...and revisit what food items you are offering...may need to be a bit more balanced and also include adequate fiber rich foods.....

 

[yoda3106]

My Russian tort passed a urate that was solid..

What's the cause? Few days ago it was liquid with a few white dots in it and today like this... its also been +30 here and humid for past few days. I only soak every day when its hot other wise every other day is what I was doing. He also doesn't soak himself yet. He seems uninterested in the water dish...
Help please

Try not to worry

Henry passed a white stone a few months back in his soak which I thought was solid urate, it wasn't, I was a stone which very possibly stuck to his food as he ate it and he's fine!! Mad as ever!! I'd start soaking him everyday for the next couple weeks just to be on the safe side, there's very slight chance he maybe dehydrated, only little thou due to the change in temp!!

Does he seem himself?

 

[dmmj]

Stones are not normal neither is hard urates, I would soak everyday for awhile and see what happens. Dumb question time, but doeshe have access to a water dish?

 

[sportychick]

OK so I'll change up his soaks to everyday.... and I'll add.more stuff for him to eat. So this is.normal to happen? And can be fixed to normal urine/urates
Always good to hear

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Stones are not normal neither is hard urates, I would soak everyday for awhile and see what happens. Dumb question time, but doeshe have access to a water dish?

Oi so not normal... but fixable....
And yes he has access to water dish change it clean everyday but he doesn't go for it at all.. walks to it look in maybe a leg in and boom "runs" away lol. So I'm hoping he will be better soon.

 

[ascott]

Be sure to soak for at least half an hour and keep the eater warm...make him remain in the soak even if he looks like he is stomping around looking to get out...the stomping around is also good movement and is beneficial....

 

[sportychick]

Other then sleeping two days ago most of the day (as I said think it was heat) put him outside yesterday and he was moving.most.of the day... he's eating and basking/sleeping under the light and alert when he sees or hears things. He knows when u add food he comes fast over to check it out and right now it is raining.out but +20 so I have him on the balcony
he is in his hide with his head popped out awake lostening and alert to tge rain falling
Ill keep an eye in it as its the first time.
Yesterday he went in his substrate and it was half liquid and half white but like a paste if that makes sense

 

[dmmj]

Right now I see it as one of three things, hard urates, resulting from being dehydrated, a kidney stone also from dehydration or something he ate outside and he passed it.

 

[sportychick]

http://i1268.photobucket.com/albums/jj569/sportychick27/IMG_20120512_103546.jpg

This is him listening.outside to the rain
So I'll do soaks everyday add more variety of foods and keep you guys posted thank you for the help and reassuring of what it is and that its fixable

 

[ascott]

I peeked at the pic you posted last....may I suggest, strongly, that you do a sleek of baby food soaks along with every other day warm water soaks (so you would be doing a baby food soak every day and every other day you would do the baby food soak and then in the evening you would do a warm water soak)...I also would be sure to get him outside for no less than an hour for sunlight....I also would make sure you make him get up and walk...don't let him sleep so much...bug him several times a day to assure he is forced to move...I also would make sure the soaks are no no less than 30 minutes...

I would be pro active with this tort...I see eyes that are not showing a healthy robust appearance and I see some slight swelling of the skinny around his neck...please be sure to not skip soaks...wake up and walk sessions....you can pm Maggie and request her to look at this pic and see if she sees the same as I do dear....

 

[sportychick]

I peeked at the pic you posted last....may I suggest, strongly, that you do a sleek of baby food soaks along with every other day warm water soaks (so you would be doing a baby food soak every day and every other day you would do the baby food soak and then in the evening you would do a warm water soak)...I also would be sure to get him outside for no less than an hour for sunlight....I also would make sure you make him get up and walk...don't let him sleep so much...bug him several times a day to assure he is forced to move...I also would make sure the soaks are no no less than 30 minutes...

I would be pro active with this tort...I see eyes that are not showing a healthy robust appearance and I see some slight swelling of the skinny around his neck...please be sure to not skip soaks...wake up and walk sessions....you can pm Maggie and request her to look at this pic and see if she sees the same as I do dear....

I appreciate the advice!! How do u keep them in the soak I mean he can't climb out its high but he trays don't want him to hurt himself.
What do u mean by robust? Sorry
I hope he's healthy and the things you are saying are fixable!!
Update on urate they are getting better

 

[Maggie Cummings]

One of the things I would do immediately if not sooner would be to change out his substrate. Get him off those pellets. Put him on coir or cypress mulch. You have him on a terrible substrate, I believe they are sucking the moisture from him...

Angela is big on long soaks of an hour or more but all the research I have done says that if they are gonna drink they do it in the first 10 minutes. They can absorb moisture (if they are dehydrated) thru the soft spot in their throat and thru their cloaca, so I do believe that a 30 minute soak is good but no longer than that as it freaks out Russians for some reason. They just don't like to soak.

Now I'm gonna do a reverse...if you want to soak him longer and it will make you feel good to do it, add strained carrots to the soak. Babyfood, Gerber's. Soak him for an hour in strained carrots. You'd put him in a small container with high sides and add 1/2 a jar of strained carrots to it and hang a 100 watt incandescent light bulb over it to keep him warm. Bring the water even with his bridge, that's where the plastron meets the carapace...

But for me I think the most important thing is to change out that nasty substrate right away...

What is his diet like? I forgot to ask about that...

 

[sportychick]

One of the things I would do immediately if not sooner would be to change out his substrate. Get him off those pellets. Put him on coir or cypress mulch. You have him on a terrible substrate, I believe they are sucking the moisture from him...

Angela is big on long soaks of an hour or more but all the research I have done says that if they are gonna drink they do it in the first 10 minutes. They can absorb moisture (if they are dehydrated) thru the soft spot in their throat and thru their cloaca, so I do believe that a 30 minute soak is good but no longer than that as it freaks out Russians for some reason. They just don't like to soak.

Now I'm gonna do a reverse...if you want to soak him longer and it will make you feel good to do it, add strained carrots to the soak. Babyfood, Gerber's. Soak him for an hour in strained carrots. You'd put him in a small container with high sides and add 1/2 a jar of strained carrots to it and hang a 100 watt incandescent light bulb over it to keep him warm. Bring the water even with his bridge, that's where the plastron meets the carapace...

But for me I think the most important thing is to change out that nasty substrate right away...

What is his diet like? I forgot to ask about that...

Hi thank you for your reply. I do have him on coco coir ..
It needed to wet it as it was drying ... I will start with tomorrows soak with baby food but I haven't seen Gerber where I am. Also after 20mins he wants out of his soak. If I leave him there and yes climbing out will he get stressed?

 

[ascott]

Robust...what I meant by that is his eyes appear a bit flat...I mean they could be much more round and alert....it worries me when a tort has a withdrawn kinda dry loom to their eyes....

Maggie is correct in that Russians as a species seems to have less than a love for being soaked like a potato ....however, if a tort has a dry appearance and is having a hard time with passing solid urates then there is some dehydration likely going in...and if so a dehydrated tort if let go too long can begin to not do the things on its own that are necessary and beneficial to their over all well being....hence we step in and try to encourage manually the things necessary and in doing these things allow the tort to get an over all good feeling which then can promote a sense of health....and can then continue to function until they get out or through the funk...

I absolutely adore Maggie and have tremendous respect for her years of experience...especially when speaking of a baby or young tort...this is why I encouraged you to pm her and ask for her input....my concern was the eyes and the slight start of what appears to be swelling of the normally loose skin around the tortoise neck....do get the little tort some sun...soaks and foods rich in vitamin a...

 

[Maggie Cummings]

What's his diet like? Why don't you have Gerber's? It's the most popular baby food ever. Your substrate looks too dry and your tortoise looks too skinny. Did I miss something about his diet?

Angela, I agree he looks dehydrated, you are correct about that, and he looks with drawn and skinny...She says he's on coir but it looks like dry pellets to me...Better start soaking him for an hour daily...

 

[sportychick]

OK so I'm going to start his baby food soaks this.morning and see how that goes. Skinny?? Really? I don't want to over feed him either lol..
Maggie no sorry I thought I wrote his diet in there he gets lettuce dandelions rose leaves strawberry leaves.. I gave him one day a treat of cucumber ...
As for gerber im in czech and i never seen it.. so i hope another brand is ok
I've only had him for two weeks so I hope to get better at this.and make him happy and healthy

I wet his substrate so its moist and its better for him.. and this.morning he was out and moving and had even took a dip into his water as I could tell since it was dirty