Spike's Medical Problems

[phejr]

Hello and Welcome. Give as much info as possible about what is wrong with her, how long, and anything else you think will help someone understand what your concerns are. The two members I listed below is probably the most experience in here with sulcatas

@Tom
@Yvonne G
Both have had sulcatas for many many years. Yvonne also ran a rescue, and seen a lot of bad tortoise things.

3 years ago Spike was diagnosed by our local vet with a " bladder stone" the size of a softball ( she was vomiting ). We then took her to UC Davis school of veterinary medicine. At that time it was a 3 hour drive each way for us. She had X-rays, CT scan, and had to be sedated for everything because she's so strong. We took her back for the surgery, they were going to go in next to a rear leg, cut the stone into pieces and take them out. She was sedated and as soon as they started to cut she began to bleed profusely and they had a very hard time getting it stopped. She needed a transfusion and UC Davis started calling people with Sulcatas. Some wonderful people brought their tortoise Wally in at 1:00 am to give blood. Wow !! We took her home ( still with the bladder stone ) and in bad shape. She had a tube in her neck for food and meds. After a year we were able to try again. The stone was bigger now and the groin entry was not an option. They cut a hole in her plastron, broke the stone up and took it out. They epoxied and screwed plates to hold the plastron piece in place. They also epoxied round glides in 4 places to keep the section off the ground. Same tube for meds and food. We had to shrink her world down to a very small and flat area. On a follow up check an infection was found at the surgical site. We were told that treatment was to open up the plastron again, keep it open for treatment and keep her there stationary for a long time. At that point we had 2 issues......... quality of life for Spike and our continued ability to pay for her care. At that time we had spent $17,000.00. An X-ray - $1000, CT- $1000, transfusion - $1000. the 2 surgeries were unbelievably expensive. I spent nights in hotels up there to be able to take her home the next morning after procedures. Family and friends thought we were crazy. That's how much we love her. We decided not to subject her to the treatment. We took her home on antibiotics with the understanding from the Doctors that it was basically hospice. That was 3 years ago. She improved slowly and we were finally able to expand her world again. 2 years ago we moved 3 hours further away from Davis, and as retirees we're on a fixed income. We have no money for further treatments. Terrible place to be...... After Davis, she had an occasional smelly, slightly bloody discharge from the surgical area. we looked and there was still a small opening in the perimeter of the " patch ". That resolved and has never come back. She tolerated the move well and was on the antibiotics until recently. She is eating like a horse, peeing, pooping, and passing urata. Her demeanor is good, she's bright, mobile and seemingly happy except for making noises. She's always made some funny little squeals and groans. Ocassionaly a very un lady like huge belch. Liked to make noise in her soak pool. For the last month or six weeks she's been very vocal. More groans, some grunts, lots of squeals. Still seems normal in every way but the noises. Our problem is this. We don't know if the sounds might be pain driven ? No way to tell. If we knew for certain she was in pain we would put her down. Her quality of life being the first order. On the other hand, if we put her down and she was not in pain, how awful would that be. I know this was long. Sorry. Any thoughts or input would be much appreciated.

Phil

 

[Yvonne G]

It might be a good idea to have an X-ray to see if maybe she's either egg bound or has another stone. You've gone above and beyond trying to give this tortoise a good, healthy life. And I appreciate you don't want her living in pain. It's a tough place for you to be.

Just a note on stones. Mainly they happen because of dehydration. Some types of food may also be involved, but mainly hydration. At her size it's impossible for YOU to soak her, but make sure to always have water available to her in something that's big enough she can actually enter and soak. You can also spritz water over her food.

It has always been my way of tortoise-keeping to "wait and see." If the tortoise is eating and acting otherwise normal, I wait and see what happens (if the groaning gets worse, if she stops eating, etc.)

I don't know of any GOOD tortoise vets here in our area, and like you said, Davis is a couple hours away. There are several in SoCal, but that's even further away. But if you could see your way clear to try to find out why she's grunting/groaning it would help you make the decision that needs to be made.

 

[phejr]

It might be a good idea to have an X-ray to see if maybe she's either egg bound or has another stone. You've gone above and beyond trying to give this tortoise a good, healthy life. And I appreciate you don't want her living in pain. It's a tough place for you to be.

Just a note on stones. Mainly they happen because of dehydration. Some types of food may also be involved, but mainly hydration. At her size it's impossible for YOU to soak her, but make sure to always have water available to her in something that's big enough she can actually enter and soak. You can also spritz water over her food.

It has always been my way of tortoise-keeping to "wait and see." If the tortoise is eating and acting otherwise normal, I wait and see what happens (if the groaning gets worse, if she stops eating, etc.)

I don't know of any GOOD tortoise vets here in our area, and like you said, Davis is a couple hours away. There are several in SoCal, but that's even further away. But if you could see your way clear to try to find out why she's grunting/groaning it would help you make the decision that needs to be made.

Yvonne,

Thanks so much for your input. An X-ray at Davis is right around $1,000. We just can't do that. We've always been very focused on her hydration. She gets soaked every 4 days. The 2 of us lift her in and out of her pool. She also has a mud wallow fed by a landscape irrigation tube. She flips mud all over !!! At our old house, when we'd take the barricade down, she would climb up the stairs onto the deck, go thru the sliding door into our bedroom, thru the bedroom into the master bath and go over to the tub. Every time !!! It was her " spa treatment ". She would stay for hours with the occasional water warm up.

I guess we'll adopt the wait and see plan. She seems very OK except for the noises. When she was last seen at Davis they said she either was or getting close to sexual maturity. Might that be the cause of the vocalizations ??

Thanks again,

Phil

 

[Yvonne G]

Holy cow! $1,000? That's outrageous! It's been a while since I had a tortoise x-ray'd, but that was $70. I can't imagine inflation would bring it up to $1,000. call around to vets in your area and ask if any of them would x-ray a tortoise and how much. And if you find one who will do it cheaper and they've never done it before, remind them the tortoise is quieter when on his back

 

[MPRC]

When she was last seen at Davis they said she either was or getting close to sexual maturity. Might that be the cause of the vocalizations ??

My male redfoots make a lot of noise compared to the females. Clucking, grunting, groaning,

 

[phejr]

Holy cow! $1,000? That's outrageous! It's been a while since I had a tortoise x-ray'd, but that was $70. I can't imagine inflation would bring it up to $1,000. call around to vets in your area and ask if any of them would x-ray a tortoise and how much. And if you find one who will do it cheaper and they've never done it before, remind them the tortoise is quieter when on his back

Thanks. The $1,000 includes sedation, Dr.s fee, hospital charge, ya da ya da.