stars with nasal discharge

[Starry night]

I have 3 sri lankans which all have nasal discharge now. I've been told that I'm keeping them too dry and that is what is causing this. I have them in a glass aquarium with a repti sun 10.0 bulb and a verilux bulb. One end has a heat lamp and the hot spot stays at 90F or above. I then have a heating pad which comes on at night under their hide spot and they all sleep there. I'm using newspaper at this time because they were being treating for internal parasites. One of the tortoises about a month ago got a small eye infection and I quarantined him and I noticed he had some nasal discharge from time to time but the vet said that was because the eye and nose were all connected. Once the eye infection cleared up after a few week I put him back with the others. Now they are all having some small discharge. Is this a respiratory infection or is it simply because they are too dry and it's causing this. Should I seek vet help or add a new substrate and begin providing a humid hide especially when they sleep. Please give me advice from those who have years of experience with stars and not newbies like myself. I need to correct my errors and get my animals well again.

 

[Luvthemtorts]

I would take the animals to your veterinarian and get them to send a sample off to be tested for Mycoplasma. The reason I suggest this is it often presents itself first as conjunctivitis which sounds like what you describe as an eye infection. If your vet hasn't a clue what you are talking about then its time to find another.
Some will disagree however this has become a HUGE problem within the community due to poor quarantine procedures and Stars are extremely susceptible.
If it comes back positive then it can be dealt with accordingly but never really completely eradicated. Doxycycline drops introduced into the nares several times a day will typically clear symptoms for the time being. Keep in mind IT WILL reoccur throughout the life of the animal so if sold the buyer should be made aware of this.
I would warn all potential owners to buy from respected breeders directly and avoid purchasing Elegans from casual keepers unless you trust the individual 100%.

 

[Starry night]

So if I get the symptoms to clear up then should I not ever introduce any more animals with them. It stated with an eye infection in one tortoise and the vet said it was conjunctivitis but now all 3 are having symptoms of bubbly nose and discharge. Would you also suggest that I do not breed these animals. What causes this? Have I done something which triggered this in the animals?

 

[Luvthemtorts]

If positive, then introduction of new animals would lead to all becoming symptomatic in time.
Breeding them is not a problem as the illness is not transferred to the offspring provided the hatchlings are kept away from the adults. If you are successful ALWAYS start with the healthy offspring and then when you are done working with them for the day perform daily maintenance on the infected animals.
There are many theories as to what causes it. Some believe it is naturally harbored within the animal and appears under times of stress. Others (myself included) believe it is passed from animal to animal due to newly obtained animals being asymptomatic at the time of acquistion and not effectively quarantined.
Hard to say if what you have done has triggered this. I will say that if the animal that first experienced the symptoms was from a different source from the other two then it was probably passed from this animal to the others.
Don't feel too bad. Mycoplasma is the dirty little secret of the tortoise world.
When I inquire about an animal even if from a respected breeder I ALWAYS ask about Mycoplasma even if it means offending the seller.

 

[Starry night]

So what do you recommend for proper quarantine methods. Later this year I will be obtaining some new tortoises and I have a second set up for them. Right now I'm just using 20 gallon fish tanks and as a night time heat source I'm using and under the tank heater. I'm about to move them into a vision tub. What would you suggest I use for a night time heat source.

 

[Luvthemtorts]

Provided your reptile room doesn't drop below 70 degrees there is no need to use a night time heat source.
My quarantine procedures are considered excessive by some but it has proven effective for me in the past.
Each new animal is set up by itself and held in quarantine for a minimum of 6 months. Gloves are changed between serving each animals enclosure. Since you have animals that are suspect at the moment then that will throw an extra twist into the mix because you will have to insure cross contamination does not occur.
It is certainly doable but you must be vigilant each time you come in contact with the animals, bedding, water bowl, feeding trays, etc..
If you choose not to get them tested for Mycoplasma titers then I would isolate those three animals from your collection for the remainder of their lives to be on the safe side. I think it would be in your best interest to have the necessary tests performed so you know where you stand with them. It could be negative and if so the animals have the potential of being added to another group at a later date.

 

[George]

Hello Starry Night - i have two stars that recently had mild respiratory problems - the oldest, 17mths has suffered on and off with a eye infection since i got her, first i thought it was dust, then i thought i was drying her out with too much heat, then i moved her and her sister into a new home but continued to use the same day and night heat sources. I thought if its not broken!, well it obviously was because they both became sick and needed antibiotics. I changed my heat source from bulb daytime and heat mat night time to a ceramic heater - best move ever! the've never been so well! mine live in a glass vivarium and love a good constant heat source - only my opinion!

 

[Luvthemtorts]

George,
Unless you had the tests performed and the results were negative I'd venture to say you are in the same boat as Starry Night. The symptoms and course you described is par for the course with Mycoplasma.
Typically it goes like this,
Eye infection (conjunctivitis) followed by a nasal discharge. Clears up with additional heat or with antibiotics, comes back, clears up, etc.... Sometimes many months between flare ups.
Most vets do not test for it since it involves specialized techniques and sending off the sample. Some are not even aware of the widespread nature of the problem within the captive population. Diagnosis, URI.
I know of several people who have symptomatic animals within their collection, practice no quarantine or isolation procedures and knowingly sell animals who have a history of chronic runny nose (Mycoplasma).
Moral of this story? BUYER BEWARE lol

 

[Starry night]

Will this affect their overall health and growth or shorten their lifespan? Hell in the wild these animals contract all kinds of parasites, ticks, and who knows what else. Has anyone read those book on star tortoises especially the on by De silvia.

 

[Luvthemtorts]

Don't jump the gun just yet! It very well may be a simple URI however I have personally witnessed it in a friends collection and had interactions with enough Elegans keepers to know that it is a very distinct possibility.
The only way to know for sure is to get your vet to take the samples and send them off.
From your posts here and the BOI you seem to be have the best interest of your animals at heart. Take the animal that was symptomatic first and have the test done. That way you can have the piece of mind to know what you are dealing with and if you can expect it to be a recurring issue.
As far as health and lifespan, unfortunately the answer is likely yes however this doesn't mean the animals can't have many years ahead of them
As far as what they encounter in the wild, Mycoplasma does occur in the wild. Simply do a search on the perils of our native tortoises to see how this affliction has affected some populations.
In the wild, where the animals do not get proper care and have to fend for themselves it is pretty much a death sentence.
Lets not put the cart before the horse though. I never said "it is Mycoplasma" simply it is a prevalent issue with captive Elegans and may well be your culprit. Once again only testing can give you peace of mind.

BTW did the smaller animal that you had on Fauna pass away? If so did it exhibit the same symptoms? I'm not trying to stir the pot I am simply trying to gather as much information as I can to help you out with your current situation.

Will this affect their overall health and growth or shorten their lifespan? Hell in the wild these animals contract all kinds of parasites, ticks, and who knows what else. Has anyone read those book on star tortoises especially the on by De silvia.

 

[Starry night]

NO the smaller animal did not pass away but he was not having any bubbly nose at all when I first noticed in the other two so I separated him. Now he is showing bubbles so I took away the post instead of selling a sick animal. When the eye infection showed up they also did a fecal and hook worms were found and I think that is why they are not showing much growth and the smallest one is not growing at all. I got the smallest one in Aug and it was 37 grams and today it's only 53 grams. I'm going to the vet today to get all this checked out. I'm about to give up with stars because I've had nothing but one problem after another and it's costing me out the ***.

 

[Luvthemtorts]

I commend your honesty in not selling an animal that has shown signs of recent illness! That says plenty for your character.
I know you've had a run of bad luck but before you give up lets see what the tests show. If its Mycoplasma it can be dealt with accordingly. If its truly an URI then we can work on nailing down what caused it so it doesn't happen again.
I suspect since the littlest one became symptomatic after being introduced to the others that the results are going to be positive but lets wait and see.
Even if it comes back with bad news there is still no reason the animals can't reach adulthood and become viable breeders provided you are committed to giving them a little special attention and dealing with the flare ups as they occur.
Best of luck with the tests and I hope I am 100% wrong on my hunch.

NO the smaller animal did not pass away but he was not having any bubbly nose at all when I first noticed in the other two so I separated him. Now he is showing bubbles so I took away the post instead of selling a sick animal. When the eye infection showed up they also did a fecal and hook worms were found and I think that is why they are not showing much growth and the smallest one is not growing at all. I got the smallest one in Aug and it was 37 grams and today it's only 53 grams. I'm going to the vet today to get all this checked out. I'm about to give up with stars because I've had nothing but one problem after another and it's costing me out the ***.

 

[gummybearpoop]

Jeremy
I am sorry to hear about all your troubles with the stars.

Are you using all the same terrarium stuff from when you kept that other sick star you sent to your friend in SD?

So, the one I sold you got sick as well?

Email me if you get the time. I will have to go to class right now, but when I get back I will email you.

Sorry to hear about your star stresses man. That really sucks

Thanks,
Norman

 

[Starry night]

Hey lovethemtorts. Give me a call if you get a chance. 312-206-0321