temp question

[Olivia]

Hey guys I need help. I have a Testudo graeca ibera and I am currently (10:42 am so it will go up still. I am tracking it by the hour since I changed the height of the bulb.) have a temp range of :
96F under the spot heat bulb
86F in the middle of the enclosure
78/80F on the cool side
77F night time room temperature.

I was wondering if that is ok and what would be the ideal temp range? He/she is my baby and I want to do everything right! I had him/her under the spot light and it was higher up and the temp under it was at 86F so I decided to lower it so I can up that temp for him/her. Did I do right or wrong? I read so may articles and can't find a straight temp answer.

Thanks guys!

 

[GBtortoises]

For Ibera basking temperatures should be in the range of 95-110 degrees, keeping in mind that young tortoises can dehydrate rapidly due to limited body mass. Because of this it's always better to start with basking temps on the low end of the scale for for hatchling and very small tortoises and have the ability to adjust upward if necessary.
Ambient enclosure temperature within the low 70's through low 80's. The temperature variance from one end to the other should be created on it's own with the basking light being mounted at one end of the enclosure. I would not be as concerned about the cool side being too cool if the enclosure is within a room that is a normal comfort level. I would be more concerned about the entire enclosure actually being too hot. In my opinion your night time temperature is too warm. Like other Northern Mediterranean species, Ibera can take much cooler night time temperatures and should have an approximate 15-20 degree temperature differential from day to night. This difference and warming up in the daytime, along with increased light at the same time will usually "draw them out" of night time hiding and encourage them to establish a normal daily routine as they would in the wild or outdoors in captivity. Consistently warm temperature day and night will often cause Northern Mediterraneans to stay put and wait out the heat.

 

[Olivia]

Thanks, that answers my question perfectly! Me and my bf have two areas in our apartment where we keep our collection, one is a tropical room (our walk in closet, which is pretty big) and one temperate room (the walk-in area to our one bedroom apartment). The closet is small enough that with all the heat lamps and bulbs we get an ambient temp of 85F all year round in the room itself not counting the heat the pets get from the bulbs on the tanks, sometimes we use a space heater when we hit the really cold part of the winter. The other outside room with all the other apartments running their heat all winter we set our heat to 55/60F and get 75F temp in our apartment. Right now every tank is at 75/76F and we have a fan running to keep them cool since people are crazy and running their heat already. The things we must do...lol.

I currently have him in that closet since its warm and not in a high traffic area , but I will move him out of there and I can keep him warm with the spot light during the day and at night he will be somewhere in the 60s. So my range should be 95F spot bulb, 75f ambient, 60sF night. Is that ok?


Another question- I have him on reptile substrate made from alfalfa pellets. I read its not a good choice. He is about 1 year old. Is it good or bad? I read 50/50 play sand and coco fiber is ok. Is it?

Diet wise I think I am OK, I am following this thread:
Tortoise Forum / Tortoise Topics / Tortoise Diet and Food / Food for desert dwelling type of Tortoises - Desert Tortoises, Marginated, Greeks, Russians, Sulcatas, etc

 

[GBtortoises]

Definitely with a younger Ibera I would start out with a basking temperature at the lower end of the scale and work upward based on how much the tortoise is actually spending under the light and what the ambient air temperature within the enclosure is. 72-82 is a good daytime ambient air temperature range at the cooler end of the enclosure. Occasionally a little warmer is fine. Many people keep baby tortoises much too hot because they're "fragile babies". In reality they are no more fragile than a mid size adult tortoise and have the ability to survive as such soon out of the egg. What happens when you keep a baby too hot to too much is that they spend a majority of their time buried in the substrate trying to escape the excessive heat which in the wild or outdoors in captivity they would rarely venture out in. Around 62-68 is fine at night, even cooler is fine once in awhile too.
I do agree that an alfalfa pellet substrate is not a good choice, for a few reasons: First, when wet from spraying (which should be done frequently), drinking water and urine pellets breakdown and hold in excessive moisture which a potential area for mold and bacteria. Second, pellets shift and do not allow for good solid footing. Third, alfalfa is high in protein, something that is best avoided in high concentrations for growing, developing tortoises.
Very few keepers like to use sand anymore. It has a tendency to be dusty when dry, clumps when wet and will stick to anything that has the slightest moisture such as food, eyes, mouth and other things. Everyone has their favorite substrate recipe for young tortoises. Mine is about 2-2.5" of a mix of 60% organic top or potting soil, 30% coconut coir and the rest ground leaf litter and sphagnum moss. I've found that this mixture retains moisture well but can also be burrowed into by young tortoises yet firm enough to give solid footing. I also randomly place several flat stones, including one under the basking light, for them to walk on.
Diet should be high in fiber, with a good calcium to phosphorus ratio while moderate to low in protein. Any protein for a Northern Mediterranean tortoise should come from plant sources and not from animal proteins. A good varied, quality diet can consist of, but not be limited to: Clover, broad & narrow leaf plantain, wild chicory, dandelion, sow thistle, crown vetch, lambsquarter, purslane, trefoils, sedums, nettles, tree leaves, flowers, romaine, chicory, endive, escarole, mustard greens, beet greens, collard greens, carrot tops and sparingly green and red leaf lettuce, spinach, kale and cabbage. I feed a diet of about 80% quality, varied greens. Along with that I feed mine about 20% vegetables including, but again not limited to: pumpkin, squashes, carrot, sweet potato and sparingly green and yellow beans, peas and corn. A very occasional piece of fruit is fine but absolutely should not being part of a regular diet for Testudo species. Mine also always have timothy hay available to graze on, which young Testudo rarely do, but should always have the opportunity to if they want to. I also have calcium carbonate available in a small, shallow dish at all times for them to consume at will. I have seen almost all of my young Testudo do so often at different times in their growth period. I think the foremost important aspect of their care is adequate hydration. Clean fresh water should either be available at all times in their enclosure or they at they should be removed every two to three days at least, placed in a seperate container and allowed to drink as much as they'd like. This is referred to as "soaking" by many people.

 

[Olivia]

I soak him daily and he excretes pee and urates and drinks. The diet tips are much appreciated. I am going to change his substrate tonight to what you mentioned.

This is his first day with a spot bulb at 95F instead of 82F and I have never seen him more active. I hope that's fine. He is cruising, Im a bit freaked out.

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Yeah I heard that about those pellets and that is why I soak him instead of keeping a dish in his tank. Im going to change that substrate tonight. We have a bucket of planting soil that we make ourselves, strictly organic, that will be perfect. My avatar pic is the little guy. Too cute!

 

[GBtortoises]

Yep, activity is good! I always take that as a sign of a tortoise that is not too cool, not too hot, but just right!

 

[Olivia]

:-D THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR ALL THE ADVICE!!!!! I want him to be happy and well taken care of. My first one and I am already in love with him

 

[Olivia]

GBtortoises I re-did his enclosure. I have him in a plastic open drawer with cardboard taped on the outside for visual barriers for now. I will construct a table for him before spring so that he can get outside time. Substrate is divided; front half Aspen and back half coco fiber cut with a little bit of Sand and sphagnum and leaf litter and wood chips to break up the coco fiber a bit. It's predominantly coco fiber though. I put in several slate stones for him to keep his claws trimmed (close to the basking spot) and a dish of Timothy hay for him to munch on whenever he wants. He likes it even though he is still so young. Also, I put in that calci bone in there too. And I gave him one tipped over potter for a hide. It's plastic. I'm iffy on wether I should put a water dish in there or just stick with the soaks. I prefer soaks for now.

He is in a critter keeper with those leftover alfalfa pellets for tonight so his new enclosure can warm up, that coco fiber was sooooo cold. We made some and kept it in our storage pet supply closet. It was at 50F. So he is sleeping right now. Good news I trashed the rest of that stuff and won't use it for him again.

I will try to post a pic in a few.

What do you think.

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[GBtortoises]

The temporary enclosure is fine as long as it's only temporary for a short time. Because of it's small size and close proximately of the light fixture there won't be much of a temperature gradient and the substrate is going to dry out rapidly once the light comes on. Just keep it well moistened and your tortoise well hydrated. You might want to place the overlapping stone in a different position. If your tortoise should tumble off the upper stone it could land upside down under the basking light. This could be fatal. It's always good to design an enclosure layout keeping the worst possible scenarios in mind when doing so. Sometimes some very unexpected things can happen!

 

[Olivia]

Yeah he kept trying to climb out last time and tipped over in the upper left hand corner. The substrate in the upper right hand corner is filled in all the way up to the top even with the slate, so the slate is like a stairway almost to the top where the basking spot it. Yeah this is very temporary. And the light fixtures are high enough for basking spot to be spot on 95F and a ambient of 80F thru the enclosure. I took those pics at night with the lights off just the room light on

 

[Olivia]

I showed my bf your post and he said that you are absolutely right but he thought that you were referring to the stair climb being too steep and said that I should change that up and make it more gradual....so I changed that up a bit. This is what it looks like now.