This ad seems fishy.

[matt41gb]

Never heard of a Brazilian (Giant) Redfoot Tortoise with "Zig-Zag" Scute Pattern.

The tortoise is clearly a regular "northern" red-foot with split scutes. Seems like they are trying to make someone think that the deformity is cool, and unusual. I can't believe they are asking $400 for it.

http://market.kingsnake.com/detail.php?cat=50&de=766773

Your thoughts......

-Matt

 

[kimber_lee_314]

This is the same guy I've been posting about. Read my threads "Egyptian ID" and "Help Needed."

 

[matt41gb]

Wow! I just read all of those posts. That guy is crazy. I spotted that his red-foot ad was a fraud from a mile away, and I'd never even heard of him. I'm glad people are standing up to him. Just goes to show how careful you need to be when dealing with people you don't know. I got scammed a couple months ago from another guy, so I know how it feels.

-Matt

 

[jackrat]

Matt,is this the same one who had that funky looking pair of Brazilians for $900 ?

 

[kimber_lee_314]

Same guy!

 

[jackrat]

I need some of whatever that is he's smokin.

 

[matt41gb]

Hahaha! What a jerk he is.

 

[kimber_lee_314]

You should see the emails he sent me! Ranting about all kinds of things that had nothing to do with the sale. He called me "immature" and told me I was a "very angry young lady" who needed to work out her "emotional issues." Somehow he looked up my father in law and asked me if he was my "daddy?" STRANGE!

 

[matt41gb]

I did respond to his ad acknowledging that I knew it was a scam. I'm curious what he will write back. I couldn't resist, he he.

 

[allegraf]

His cherryhead "pair" is really two boys.

 

[allegraf]

I stand corrected, the husband thinks it is a pair.

 

[t_mclellan]

The definition of a "Pair" is 2 of a like kind, I think.
In South Florida 2 males would be a "South Beach" Pair!

 

[allegraf]

True dat!

 

[matt41gb]

The definition of a "Pair" is 2 of a like kind, I think.
In South Florida 2 males would be a "South Beach" Pair!

I wrote him telling him that I saw through his scam. Here are a series of emails that we shared since last night. I just wrote him an response before posting this. He doesn't seem too bad. I believe as of now that he is being given wrong information.

Me: Wow! You've got yourself a nice little scam going there buddy.

Vincent: Hi Matt; What do you mean ? Would you rather I say: "extremely severe scute deformity"....Do not buy under any circumstances!!! ?

Me: Not at all. I would say this."Healthy "Northern" red-foot for sale" (since there is no such thing as a "Brazilian Giant".) Then I would only ask the buyer to pay what the tortoise is actually worth. Compared to the other Northern red-foots for sale on Kingsnake; he is no different than the others, except for the split scutes which aren't really that big of a deal. He really should only sell for $150 max. $400 is way too much to ask. You will never sell him at that price. I really hope that this is an honest mistake on your part, and that you really aren't trying to scam some poor soul who doesn't know better. I hope this helps.

-Matt

Vincent:Well, if your familiar with one of the largest Eastern distributors, Glades Herp ? they sold this to my customer as a Brazilian Giant which getto be the largest among all Redfoots (considerably larger). Now, she paid $300 as a hatchling for it. Do you think that Glades scammed her as well ?

Me: I am familiar with Glade's Herp farm. I've actually done business with them about four years ago. I ordered a large red-foot female that died shortly after I received her. Obviously sick before I got her. A Brazilian "Giant" is another name for a very large yellow-foot tortoise. Some grow very large16" or more. What you're selling is just your average run of the mill red-foot. Now with this information you can properly advertise that you have a Northern red-foot with some scute deformity. I realize that the split scutes run in a consistent zig-zag pattern, but you can acknowledge that this is an incubation, and possible genetic deformity and not something that someone should strive for their tortoise to look like. I'm sorry you were given wrong information from Glade's Herp farm, but now you know.

-Matt

Hopefully he'll write back. I hope that he will do the right thing. He doesn't seem like a jerk thus far.

-Matt

 

[Kristina]

Different guy than who I got my Russians from, but same MO. When I told the seller that one of them arrived with eyes swollen shut and a yellow discharge, he called me all kinds of names and said that I was lying and sending pics of a sick tort I already had! What is wrong with these people?

 

[Madkins007]

A few weeks ago, I would have been outraged by this junk. Then, I read 'The Lizard King" about reptile smuggling. It has a lot of insights into how at least some breeders, retailers, farms, etc. think and to them, it is all about the bottom line. The book mentions several instances of people on all levels finding ways to sell runts and ill animals at a significant profit by playing this sort of game.

It may be that he got scammed in the first place (as in "gee, here is a guy who is buying some of our poorly animals and paying top price- let's see what else we can foist off on him"). Or he may just be a typical 'profits come first, there is a sucker out there somewhere' seller.

After reading the book, I will never again buy an animal worth more than a few bucks from a pet shop or on-line/mail/phone unless I know something about the seller.

 

[kimber_lee_314]

I'm trying my best to let this go - so I keep adding and deleting this post. I'll just leave this final repsone - he told my husband and me that he offers a two week guarantee, unlike other breeders who offer only 24-48 hours. He told me I would have to pay more money for a receipt, so I stupidly declined. I probably get what I deserve for dealing with someone with such shady practices, but I had dreams of starting a breeding group of these nearly extinct tortoises. Here is his last email to me:

I am NOT a Wal Mart or JC Penneys where you are used to returning anything & everything under the sun for a refund or replacement! If you weren't so "rigid", demanding exactly your way of resolution or none, you'd be ahead by now. You could have sold the Leopard tortoise I offered you, for example, and used those funds to purchase another Egyptian from among two other sellers on Kingsnake. How you just responded in your last email is akin to a little child who doesn't get their way! "I'm going to have the court (mommy & daddy) make you give me my money back!" "I'm going to tell all my "friends" (clubs & forums) that you're a baaaad boy!!!". I don't join or really associate that much with such clubs, and have never responded once to such "Fauna Classified" garbage forum talk. In fact, most of those jokesters who wrote about me on Fauna are not even associated with reptiles any longer!! One even used a false name (illegal by their rules) because he was so ashamed. Finally, as I once predicted, Fauna chat forum may very shortly be 'OUT OF BUSINESS!!! No one wants to support them, just milk information and let someone else do all the work!! Typical of today's society anyway, that's why I'm not surprised. You are a very angry young lady, and I sincerely hope that you "work through" your own personal problems rather than taking them out on the rest of society!! By the I never got you last names ? Who is Charles E. ***** of *****, Kansas ? Perhaps your daddy ?

 

[dmmj]

He charges extra for receipts? nice little racket he has got going there IMHO.

 

[matt41gb]

I got a response back from Vincent today. He seems to be a pretty good sport. Is the the same guy you guys have dealt with?

Me: I am familiar with Glade's Herp farm. I've actually done business with them about four years ago. I ordered a large red-foot female that died shortly after I received her. Obviously sick before I got her. A Brazilian "Giant" are another name for a very large yellow-foot tortoise. Some grow very large16" or more. What you're selling is just your average run of the mill red-foot. Now with this information you can properly advertise that you have a Northern red-foot with some scute deformity. I realize that the split scutes run in a consistent zig-zag pattern, but you can acknowledge that this is an incubation, and possible genetic deformity and not something that someone should strive for their tortoise to look like. I'm sorry you were given wrong information from Glade's Herp farm, but now you know.

-Matt

Vincent: Thanks for the feedback!! Actually, it's a "Bolivian" (not Brazilian) redfoot. You know, I've usually respected & trusted Glades, and never received any "problem" herps from them (although I've only actually bought from them about a handfull of times. If you check their current listing, they list it as "the largest of the Redfoots". I would have never bought one as a hatchling, as I'd have to SEE one around 24" to believe that. Anyway, when my customer (before I new her) bought it they apparently told her that the scute pattern was agreat "rarity", and they also had a few others like it that sold quickly!! She bought the last one, OF COURSE!!! Anyway, when I first saw it, I thought the same thing as you, a grossly abnormal scute pattern probably due to incubation (or other genetic) issues. She wanted these posted to at least recover her investment, thus $399. I lowered it to $299. I wouldn't usually sell it myself, just trying to please a good customer. No scamming intended!! lol. Thanx, Vincent

 

[kimber_lee_314]

Well, I'm glad to hear that you are having a positive interraction with him. I wish I could say the same.