"tortoise chips"

Kapidolo Farms

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Hey all, I'm drying opuntia into small pieces as a natural calcium supplement. I've made a few shapes and the chips, based on limited feedback, are working best for the few trials out there and my own use. I mix them in with wet salad greens.

If you would like to try a small sample PM me your mail address, or text it to 215-483-7675 let me know your name too, and that the text is about tortoise chips.

Any questions or concerns, lets do it here open book style.
 

wellington

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How would you like to receive our findings? Here on this thread or in a pm which you could copy/paste as you please?
 

Kapidolo Farms

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How would you like to receive our findings? Here on this thread or in a pm which you could copy/paste as you please?
Here is fine. Please be articulate. I actually ate some and find they would taste good with just the slightest seasoning, salt vinegar etc.
 

Kapidolo Farms

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Here is another batch prepared for the drying process. I have read enough of the food and nutrition lit to not be worried about the negligible nutrient loss with sun drying, most fruit originally came that way. But it loses too much color, and I think it has to look good too. I don't want to use sulphur to help it keep color like human food producers use. So no more sun drying. The best color retention occurred with a gentle warm air movement over the chips already sent out to tortoise owners. The diameter of the shoe strings and angel hair is good but too complicated to deal with as whole cut pads, These are more chips and shoe string pieces, same diameter but shorter lengths.

2015-08-29 13.06.43.jpg 2015-08-29 13.06.54.jpg
 
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wellington

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Okay, here is what I have found with my picky male leopard and the two females that's not so picky. Also my Russian.
I served small portions of each batch dry and also soaked.
I had four bags, one each of Chips, Angel Hair, Planks and Shoe String.
Some of each by itself, some of it mixed with other greens and a tad of mazuri.
All of it wet, made them sniff at it. Totally ignoring the dry.
The batch that had the finest strands, the angel hair and shoe stings, wet and dry were eaten. Two leopards ate more of it then the picky one. None of them ate all of it.
The fatter strands, Chips and Planks, we're not eaten at all, neither wet or dry.

My Russian which is the most picky wouldn't eat any of it.

I saved a little from each bag for one more test. I'm going to grind it all up finer, almost to a powder and sprinkle it onto wet greens.
That result will be Thursday. An update will be then or after the holiday weekend, as I'm going out of town.

Hope this helps.
Oh, I like the small stands better myself. They took less time to soften when soaked.
 

Kapidolo Farms

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Okay, here is what I have found with my picky male leopard and the two females that's not so picky. Also my Russian.
I served small portions of each batch dry and also soaked.
I had four bags, one each of Chips, Angel Hair, Planks and Shoe String.
Some of each by itself, some of it mixed with other greens and a tad of mazuri.
All of it wet, made them sniff at it. Totally ignoring the dry.
The batch that had the finest strands, the angel hair and shoe stings, wet and dry were eaten. Two leopards ate more of it then the picky one. None of them ate all of it.
The fatter strands, Chips and Planks, we're not eaten at all, neither wet or dry.

My Russian which is the most picky wouldn't eat any of it.

I saved a little from each bag for one more test. I'm going to grind it all up finer, almost to a powder and sprinkle it onto wet greens.
That result will be Thursday. An update will be then or after the holiday weekend, as I'm going out of town.

Hope this helps.
Oh, I like the small stands better myself. They took less time to soften when soaked.

Hi Barabara,

Thanks so much for the frank response. I have had a different transition for a few reasons. I have fed out fresh opuntia since February when I moved and the stand was growing right here. I tried fresh out earlier than that, but as grocery store pads. All my tortoises have had it for awhile, even though it is fresh, the transition to dry ended up being seamless for me. I am pretty sure the ease in accepting it was based on the fresh source history. As I recall initial acceptance of fresh was spotty too.

For the smallest guys I used a large piece vegetable grater to open it up and expose the fleshy inner part. This size is great for the small tortoises mouths' but with so many small exposed sides the sap made everything sticky if it was not used immediately. This size piece is for the neonates (leopards and pancakes) and Egyptians.

The larger tortoises like Darth (adult male Manouria emys phayrei) and the Forsten's tortoises seem to not be deterred by the skin. It is not easy for them, but they keep at it. I gave them what I call planks (dried and re-wet-ed), and they just ate it like it had been there all along. I fed out the last of the planks not re-wet-ed, and only Darth would eat them as dry, and he is a 60 pounder, so not so worried about the the larger size pieces of dry opuntia.

For the middle size guys (pancakes and Speke's hingeback) I use the slicing part of a grater and make small fresh chips. The dry are moistened and put in their salad and they don't seem to have noticed.

I wholly agree the smaller dried pieces work better, I have sorted out a new four cut process to keep the long fiber quality and make smaller pieces. They dry better in that it is quicker, and the color retention is much better.

Some of the sample that you got had been 'sun' dried, and that is quick, but too much color is lost in my opinion.

So 1)I had already been feeding much fresh, the odor aspect was not a 'new' or 'novel' food, and 2) I made pieces with specific salad eaters in mind.

As dry it is a tougher acceptance to feed it as a stand alone item, re-wet-ed as a stand alone works to a greater extent. Re-wet-ed and mixed into a salad and they eat it along with everything else. When fresh they will eat it as a stand alone thing right away. They may come to do that with dry, but I am more interested in them eating it in their salad and getting the rich mineral source and long fiber, not as a stand alone thing.

For the dried I have made much smaller pieces, but not a powder, I want to preserve as much long fiber quality as possible. So diameter will be constant as small pieces with lengths 1/4", and 1", and large diameter at 2 inches. These size pieces are working for the tortoise groups I have mentioned here.

These sizes dry better in that they keep color and dry quickly. I am left to wonder if they see it as fat grass?

I don't have adult sulcatas at my home. I'm making some more giant planks to see if the large male (Dudley) at Yvonne's place will take them.

Again thanks for trying this out and telling me how it has worked.

Everyone else waiting on some to try - I'm going to prepare the packs tonight, and if done early enough I'll send them out tonight, otherwise they will go out tomorrow or Saturday.

I have also recently been reading so much published peer review literature on opuntia as a food stuff I am pissing my wife off talking about it. She has come to ask me sarcastic questions like "So, can you keep the spines and brush your teeth with them?, shut up already" lol.
 

wellington

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I did forget to add, that two of my leopards have just recently started eating fresh cactus without it having to be blended as a mush and mixed in with greens. Before just giving them a chunk they would ignore it. My big female, that I got from Neal, she is a better eater of cactus. Not sure how much she got from Neal, but seeing he lives in AZ, I'm sure he fed it from the start. Maybe his input would help here. @Neal
I also, forgot, that the freeze dried cactus I bought, that I sent you a picture of. I was tort sitting two little leopards at the time I got that. They enjoyed it better then my own. At that time I just had the two, not the one from Neal.
Also, this is the first year my first leopard, my male Tatum, has really started to graze. He would pick here and there at plants and weeds, but never grass. Now he does it the grass. So, as they are getting older, they seem to be more open to new stuff. I didn't start him out on grass or cactus when little, so it's harder to get him to eat new stuff.

I do like the thinner stuff better and the torts seem too also. The larger cuts, maybe if they were soaked longer and gotten softer, they may have worked better. I did see my one female working on a bigger piece, but gave up as it was a little tuff for her.

My Russian, just won't touch any cactus no matter how I try to feed it. When I got him, already an adult, he was fed mainly kale and strawberry. I have been able to get him to graze and eat other greens, but he still is a fussy butt.

Btw, let your wife know, with this, and the feed back, the prospect of getting it in just the right sizes, selling it and making some money from this could be just around the corner. If your not thinking of that, you should.
 

Prairie Mom

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dried cactus.jpg
Just received a pretty awesome package in the mail:) So far, I can say these survived beautifully in (I'm guessing) a very delayed mail truck. Everything arrived well. The entire package smells fantastic! I'll test it out on my sulcata and get back to you. I'm a bit swamped and beg for your patience. Thanks again! These look phenomenal. What great options!
 

wellington

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Okay my last update.
My post above I mentioned that I saved a little back from each bag to blend into almost a powder. Well, Change of plans. My chopper died on me, ugh.
So, I soaked all remains for a couple hours. They are all nice and soft. I put a pile about 8 inches away from my pickiest leopard and he came out from under the tree and is eating away, yay, that's great for him to do. The other two leopards also got a pile and they too are eating it.
So, if you have a picky eater, and doesn't really like the dry version, soak it for quite some time. Just a few minutes isn't enough for my pickier eater. Although he did eat the soaked smaller stuff before, he seems much more enthusiastic about it being much softer and this is even the bigger cuts that he didn't care for last time, he is now eating.
 

Kapidolo Farms

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This image of one ounce (28 grams) is equivalent to slightly more than 1/2 pound of fresh pad. Top center is the 1 inch strips of small diameter (medium chips) bottom right are the larger 2 inch pieces pad width (large chips) and the other pile (bottom left), even though it looks so similar to the top pile was 1/4 (maybe 3/8) inch when wet (small chips) and is the same diameter as the medium chips.

Prairie Mom's image shows angel hair (top), then shoestring (middle to the right), 4 inch chips that were the first non sun dried sample, so better color, lower right, and bottom left are planks (thicker slices the length of the pad. The angel hair is a smaller diameter than the shoestring, they are both pad length cuts. That shoestring diameter is what I am using now for what is in my image in this post, but with the 1 inch and 1/4 inch lengths.

The problem with the angel hair is the diameter. Too much 'juicing' occurs and so individual plant cells that are whole are many fewer, so there is a greater loss of cell contents. That means a much greater loss of non-elemental nutrients. All these piece sizes will provide really good long fiber when sized to the tortoise, and elemental nutrients (N, Ca, P, K etc.) are preserved for any size piece. But there is so much more to why Opuntia is a good food item, I would like to keep that as well. The shoestring diameter and bigger don't 'juice', so that is looking like a minimum diameter, length is as you want it.

If someone has an idea for a different size, I'll try that.


2015-09-03 20.12.50.jpg


The next set of samples will go out Saturday AM, tomorrow is a date night with Tamara (my wife). This distribution will include three (ten gram) samples one each of the three sizes in the image.
 
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Kapidolo Farms

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Here is another batch prepared for the drying process. I have read enough of the food and nutrition lit to not be worried about the negligible nutrient loss with sun drying, most fruit originally came that way. But it loses too much color, and I think it has to look good too. I don't want to use sulphur to help it keep color like human food producers use. So no more sun drying. The best color retention occurred with a gentle warm air movement over the chips already sent out to tortoise owners. The diameter of the shoe strings and angel hair is good but too complicated to deal with as whole cut pads, These are more chips and shoe string pieces, same diameter but shorter lengths.

View attachment 145950 View attachment 145953
The top image is the one inch long shoestring cut, and the bottom image is the 2 inch long pad wide cut.
 

Prairie Mom

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I have a question...

I was considering testing out feeding this both dry/dehydrated and after it has been soaked and absorbed as much water as possible.

I'm wondering if tortoise owners should have any concern about dried cactus, fruits, veg etc expanding in their tortoise's stomach and causing discomfort? Maybe rehydration is the safest way to go? Curious about your thoughts.
 

Kapidolo Farms

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I have a question...

I was considering testing out feeding this both dry/dehydrated and after it has been soaked and absorbed as much water as possible.

I'm wondering if tortoise owners should have any concern about dried cactus, fruits, veg etc expanding in their tortoise's stomach and causing discomfort? Maybe rehydration is the safest way to go? Curious about your thoughts.

I have soaked it overnight and the 'expansion' is very minimal if it occurs at all. I have not fed it dried from being dried on purpose, but a driver early on with this idea was seeing my tortoises eating the dried bits from an earlier (two or three days) salad. So I have no worries on that.

What I have done is wet it thoroughly with misting, like dried grass, or soaking for a as long as it takes for me to chop up greens, then mix it in with the escarole/romaine along with whatever else is going into the salad that day.
 

Prairie Mom

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I have soaked it overnight and the 'expansion' is very minimal if it occurs at all. I have not fed it dried from being dried on purpose, but a driver early on with this idea was seeing my tortoises eating the dried bits from an earlier (two or three days) salad. So I have no worries on that.

What I have done is wet it thoroughly with misting, like dried grass, or soaking for a as long as it takes for me to chop up greens, then mix it in with the escarole/romaine along with whatever else is going into the salad that day.
Good to know. Thanks
 

Neal

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I did forget to add, that two of my leopards have just recently started eating fresh cactus without it having to be blended as a mush and mixed in with greens. Before just giving them a chunk they would ignore it. My big female, that I got from Neal, she is a better eater of cactus. Not sure how much she got from Neal, but seeing he lives in AZ, I'm sure he fed it from the start. Maybe his input would help here. @Neal
I also, forgot, that the freeze dried cactus I bought, that I sent you a picture of. I was tort sitting two little leopards at the time I got that. They enjoyed it better then my own. At that time I just had the two, not the one from Neal.
Also, this is the first year my first leopard, my male Tatum, has really started to graze. He would pick here and there at plants and weeds, but never grass. Now he does it the grass. So, as they are getting older, they seem to be more open to new stuff. I didn't start him out on grass or cactus when little, so it's harder to get him to eat new stuff.

I do like the thinner stuff better and the torts seem too also. The larger cuts, maybe if they were soaked longer and gotten softer, they may have worked better. I did see my one female working on a bigger piece, but gave up as it was a little tuff for her.

My Russian, just won't touch any cactus no matter how I try to feed it. When I got him, already an adult, he was fed mainly kale and strawberry. I have been able to get him to graze and eat other greens, but he still is a fussy butt.

Btw, let your wife know, with this, and the feed back, the prospect of getting it in just the right sizes, selling it and making some money from this could be just around the corner. If your not thinking of that, you should.

Yes, my tortoises are fed cactus quite frequently, well once or twice a month. I'm not sure if that's anyone else's "frequent", but it seems a good anount to me. I would like to do once a week or every other week, but my cactus can't handle the bioload at the moment. Slowly I'm getting there.
 

Kapidolo Farms

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https://www.facebook.com/KapidoloFarms

Hey all, I made a Facebook presence for this. No matter how it ends up, if/when I start selling I will always give TFO members a 10% discount. How I'll know you're a TFO member for the discount? Order here on TFO via a PM.

Until such time, the samples are free, and now that I figured out a few economies, I will be sending out samples for a longer time than I initially considered viable. One per household, unless I just send you more to try out.
 

Keith D.

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Can't wait till mine come in, 5 DTs to try it out on lol

Oh I have a quick question, the pads you are using are they from young pads or older ones.
 

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