Vet advice.... Right or wrong???

[ben2684]

Right, as if things aren't hard enough as it is.... After hibernation I wanted to double check Terence was all ok, so booked a trip to the vets, he got his beak trimmed ever so slightly, vitamin injections which the vet said were essential after hibernation (or is it brumation??) Terence has a slight mouth infection which is now being bathed in iodine twice a day and his eating is already ten times better, but my problem is this: even though he is a dedicated reptile vet he basically told me everything I was doing was a bit off, he suggested only feeding a dried tortoise food with occasional fresh greens as a 'treat' I also explained that I had changed his coil bulb to a tube bulb (after advice from people on here!!) and he said that was unwise as they are not great. And only to have it on for 6-8 hours a day! I'm sure I'm doing the best by following advice from experienced forum members but just wanted to make sure, scary stuff a vet telling people this!!!

 

[Spn785]

Okay, the vitamin injections are not a good idea, you are right about the feeding and the coil bulbs and the UVB bulb should be on for 12 to 14 hours a day. Reptile Vets are not necessarily tortoise Vets. I would follow the advice on here.

 

[theelectraco]

Honestly, sounds like your vet is just pretending to be a reptile expert, and I would find a new one. The coil bulbs are not recommended, manufactured foods should never be a tortoises main diet, and those 'vitamin injections' are something I have read on the forums to make tortoises regress further when sick. I definitely think it would be a good idea to find a reptile specific vet who is an expert on tortoises.

 

[arotester]

coiled bulbs are not ok to have in the enclosure....and that's it.
About feeding thing, feed it all fresh and not dried ,your tort will drink water if he needs or if he doesn't drink then soak him.There is no need to feed dried food.
This is just my opinion and i am not a "VET"

 

[GeoTerraTestudo]

I also think your vet's advice is not very good when it comes to tortoises. Trimming the beak and dealing with a mouth infection can be good things to do, but I would not follow the other advice.

1) Vitamin injections should be reserved for extreme cases. This is because they contain both water-soluble and fat-soluble vitamins. It's really hard to overdose on water-soluble vitamins, because whatever you don't need, you just pee out. Fat-soluble vitamins are hard to overdose on when eaten, but they are easy to overdose on when injected, because the excess will be too much to store, and cannot be peed out, so they become toxic. Chelonians need vitamin A, but when injected, they can become ill from it. Best to feed it as a liquid or powder supplement, or to apply it topically (like an eye drop). Injection is not recommended in most cases.

2) A natural diet should be duplicated as closely as possible. What species is Terrence? If he is a Testudo species, he should be eating mostly leafy greens and broad-leaved weeds. If he is a leopard, sulcata, or Gopherus species, he should have a lot of fresh grass in his diet. If he is a redfoot or yellowfoot, he should have greens, fruits, and even a little bit of meat. It's good to supplement the diet with quality commercial foods, like Mazuri Tortoise Diet or Zoomed Grassland (or Forest) Tortoise Food. When offering these as a meal, it's better to soak them in warm water for a few minutes, so they can absorb the moisture. You generally want to offer your tortoise as much moisture as you can so he can stay hydrated. If he's big enough to snack on dry Mazuri or Zoomed pellets, that's fine. But if he's going to eat a lot of them, they should be moist.

3) Use tube bulbs, not coil bulbs, and leave them on all day long to simulate outdoor daylight. Otherwise, your tortoise might not get enough vitamin D, and his appetite might decrease if it's too dark.

 

[ben2684]

I am now a bit worries about the injections, if I had heard all he'd said after he did the injection beforehand then I probably would have said no. It just scares me that people that don't have access to this forum or similar are getting such awful advice! I forgot to say that he thought his shape was 'normal' for a Russian... (Terence has slight pyramiding which happened before I got him) but will hopefully improve with time. Is there anything I need to look out for after the injections??? I only took him in as his beak was (VERY) slightly too long and I wanted him to have a professional look at him, anyone in the uk know a decent tortoise vet... I'm in Dorset

 

[Tom]

This sort of thing is the reason for so much confusion, arguing and bad husbandry. How many tortoises does this vet currently own? How many has he raised successfully from hatchlings? How much time did this vet spend in vet school learning about the specific requirements of each tortoise species?

This sort of thing is so frustrating...

How can anyone think that dried prepared foods are better than real food?
I have personally seen coil UV bulbs damage tortoise eyes. Why hasn't this vet?
Where I live the sun shine for 11-13 hours a day. Not 6.
Those vitamin injections have killed more tortoises than I can count.

So sad. Someone needs to let this guy know that he's way off base. Where are you? Can you PM the vets info and phone number?

 

[Yvonne G]

The injection your tortoise received might not have been the dreaded A,D,E. I think sometimes vets give a B injection, which would be ok. Its the A in the A,D,E injection that gets overdosed. Then the skin sloughs off. So just be wary of any raw-looking spots. But I think you're probably going to be ok.

 

[GeoTerraTestudo]

I am now a bit worries about the injections, if I had heard all he'd said after he did the injection beforehand then I probably would have said no. It just scares me that people that don't have access to this forum or similar are getting such awful advice! I forgot to say that he thought his shape was 'normal' for a Russian... (Terence has slight pyramiding which happened before I got him) but will hopefully improve with time. Is there anything I need to look out for after the injections??? I only took him in as his beak was (VERY) slightly too long and I wanted him to have a professional look at him, anyone in the uk know a decent tortoise vet... I'm in Dorset

Pyramiding will never totally go away (although it can wear down a bit). The important thing is to make whatever new growth he has be normal, strong, and smooth.

As for the injection, vitamin A overdose basically causes lots of deep skin shedding within a few hours to days of the injection. If you don't see large amounts of skin peeling off, leaving raw-looking wounds beneath, then you're in the clear.

 

[ben2684]

I grow Terence a variety of weeds (seeds purchased from a recommended tortoise trust website) in containers indoors, plus he has herby salad mixes, dandelions, and the occasional rose petal or two when I can, plus he has nutrebol on his food. He has fresh water daily and 2/3 soaks a week, as he loves them. His light is an arcadia 10% desert tube and he has a 100 watt bulb for a heat basking spot plus a 40 watt bulb in the other corner to give him a variance of temps. I'm still not even sure he has a mouth infection as the vet didn't seem that sure either... Just said it may be a possibility!!!

---

Oh and his lights are on timers, 14 hours a day

 

[GeoTerraTestudo]

In my opinion, three soaks per week is too much for a healthy Russian. I bathe my Russians once a week. Twice if I think they're constipated. I basically try to avoid stressing them out. Others here do bathe them a few times per week, though. Just bathe them the minimum amount they need to stay well-hydrated.

 

[ben2684]

Thank you for your help guys, it was a vitamin a and d injection, a bit worried now but will get straight back to you If I notice anything abnormal!!! Fingers crossed he's okay!!!!

---

I do it that many times as I have never actually seen Terence drink!!! So you think once a week would be okay?? He does love it though.... Really stretches out and you can see the pleasure on his face

 

[Spn785]

Once a week should be fine, but I think if he enjoys it it shouldn't hurt to do it more. Watch carefully for signs of Vitamin A poisoning and keep us updated.

 

[ben2684]

Will do! He seems fine at the moment... And I'll try not to worry *gulp* 😖

 

[Tom]

Your current routine, diet and set up sound great to me. I wouldn't change anything.

So the vet said a mouth infection is a "possibility"? Didn't he/she examine the animal? Sounds like this vet needs a little extra cash to make that latest car payment. Sorry man. Seems to me like this vet just went in the back and read the "How to milk the caring pet owner out of more money." handbook.

Lesson learned. Now at least you know you can't trust this vet in a real tortoise emergency. There is always a silver lining.

 

[ben2684]

Indeed! He came recommended too, he did look at his mouth and said that if he was 100% he shouldn't be able to open his mouth?? Though surely sticking a bit of wood in would force any tort to open up.... Lesson definitely learnt!! Just need to find a new vet now!!!!

 

[Yvonne G]

That's so not true. In my over 35 years of tortoise keeping/rescue, I've had the opportunity to open many, many turtle's and tortoise's mouths. Some are very easy and just seem to know you are trying to help them, and some are so difficult you just have to give up and hope for the best. You can't take a cookie-cutter approach to tortoise keeping/treating. Each animal is a whole new ball game. And it isn't species specific either, however, the desert tortoises I've taken care of over the years seem to be much easier to tend to health-wise.

 

[ben2684]

I'm now panicking slightly... About the vitamin a overdose skin problems... Google is a dangerous thing!!! I've just begged my manager to dash home and check Terence is all okay... Which it appears he is (he's eaten all his food left for him this morning and is happily basking... And looked rather lovingly at me as I put more down 😃) so am I out of the woods???

 

[Redari]

Wow that is scary! I am so glad I learned about the vitamin injections. I hope Terence is okay!!! Keep us posted.

*Hugs for you and Terence*

 

[Laura]

call the vet and ask what was in the injection that was given...