"Weed n Feed"

[Irwin4530]

Warm enough for a bite outside

 

[BeeBee*BeeLeaves]

Dandelion joy! Now that is one big Russian baby ... hmmm ... babushka! What a beauty! BIG beauty!

 

[mike taylor]

Man you need to Write a care sheet thats one smooth tortoise.

 

[Tom]

That is one gorgeous russian. What does he/she look like all cleaned up?

 

[GeoTerraTestudo]

Adorable! But are his eyes okay? They seem a bit puffy. Did he just come out of hibernation? Might be a bit low on vitamin A.

 

[BeeBee*BeeLeaves]

That face. I wanna squeeze that chubby cheeky little face. How old is your Russian? Sure is a big happy dandelion eating cutie.

 

[Irwin4530]

Ill clean her up and take a few pictures , thanks for all The nice comments.... She really is a lovely tortoise!

I was lucky enough to get her off of craigslist About three years ago And she was full-grown...... So that beautiful shell isn't from me , I sure am happy I have her!



What can I do for her if she is vitamin A deficient? I attached another picture. Of her eyes too

 

[GeoTerraTestudo]

What can I do for her if she is vitamin A deficient? I attached another picture. Of her eyes too

Yeah, she does appear to have dry, puffy eyes due to vitamin A deficiency (xerophthalmia and hypovitaminosis A). It's not unusual to see this ailment in captive turtles and tortoises, particularly after hibernation. Fortunately, it's pretty easy to treat and cure.

Dandelions are definitely a good food to offer, since they're rich in vitamin A, along with several other plants. However, you'll need to treat this with a bit more gusto as well.

First off, give your tortoise daily baths of warm water with carrot baby food. Carrots are a good source of vitamin A and beta-carotene, which itself turns into vitamin A in the body. Warm carrot baby food baths provide moisture, and if your tortoise drinks, then she will ingest the carrot juice, which will be very good for her.

In addition, you can deliver vitamin A directly to her eyes with eye drops. You can buy a product like ZooMed Repti Turtle Drops at most pet stores for about $5. Some of the larger pet stores might not carry it, but smaller specialty reptile stores usually do. Just use as directed. Apply a few drops to each eye everyday. In addition, you can sprinkle it onto her food so she will ingest it directly and replenish her body's vitamin A stores. It's pretty hard to overdose on vitamin A in eye drop or dietary supplement form, so you can use it pretty liberally to make sure she's getting it.

http://www.amazon.com/dp/B0002DJ0AQ/?tag=exoticpetnetw-20

You can also buy powdered vitamin and mineral supplements. These will include beta carotene and vitamin A. Just sprinkle them onto your tortoise's food, the way you would calcium + vitamin D3 powder. Finally, quality commercial foods like Mazuri Tortoise Diet and ZooMed Grassland Tortoise Food are also fortified with vitamins and minerals, including beta carotene and vitamin A.

Once you start treating this, you should start seeing improvement in a couple days, and usually a complete cure in a couple weeks. Then, keep up the good nutrition, including beta carotene and vitamin A, to prevent this from happening again.

 

[Irwin4530]

Thanks so much for all of that great information. I do try and give her a mixed diet With Mazuri once a week and TNT 3x a week But am more than willing and able to do more if she needs it.
She has always been very sensitive and i usually just treat with warm baths but I will absolutely add in the baby food and get her some drops. I will also up the Mazuri to 2-3 times a week if you think it will help.

 

[GeoTerraTestudo]

Thanks so much for all of that great information. I do try and give her a mixed diet With Mazuri once a week and TNT 3x a week But am more than willing and able to do more if she needs it.
She has always been very sensitive and i usually just treat with warm baths but I will absolutely add in the baby food and get her some drops. I will also up the Mazuri to 2-3 times a week if you think it will help.

Okay, good. Yeah, when they're young and growing, sometimes they need more nutrients than they would if they were older and not growing quite so fast. Is everything else okay, like temperature? Or is it a new import? Sometimes their eyes get puffy like that if they're cold, or if they contracted a virus, or if they had a tough time during shipment, often together with a runny nose. But if the environment is fine, then it's usually vitamin A deficiency.

 

[BeeBee*BeeLeaves]

You got her on craigslist? Score! Major score. She is way too cute. And what excellent information for her eyes. Gotta love these TFO experts. We all learn! : )

 

[GeoTerraTestudo]

I was lucky enough to get her off of craigslist About three years ago And she was full-grown...... So that beautiful shell isn't from me , I sure am happy I have her!

Ah, looks like I missed that detail. Her usual diet seems good. Did she just come out of brumation then? Sometimes they can run out of vitamin A while hibernating if they weren't plump enough going in, or if they weren't actually in a dormant state.

 

[Irwin4530]

I think her temps are all good she ranges from 70-95 ( obvious day to night and gradient changes) degrees with a spot to bask....the room is between 80% and 60% humidity.
It was a touch cool out yesterday but they were only out for some sun and weeds for about 20 minutes at the time of this photo.

Is there a prescribed duration for these soaks or will I "know" when she looks better. Other then the eyes she is a big active eating (and pooping) machine

---

....and again , thank you for your help

 

[GeoTerraTestudo]

I think her temps are all good she ranges from 70-95 ( obvious day to night and gradient changes) degrees with a spot to bask....the room is between 80% and 60% humidity.
It was a touch cool out yesterday but they were only out for some sun and weeds for about 20 minutes at the time of this photo.

Is there a prescribed duration for these soaks or will I "know" when she looks better. Other then the eyes she is a big active eating (and pooping) machine

---

....and again , thank you for your help

---

I bathe healthy tortoises only once a week for about 5-15 minutes (if they're constipated, then maybe twice per week for a longer period). However, if there's an actual illness (like puffy eyes), then I bathe them everyday (in carrot baby food) for half an hour. Some tortoises like baths, others don't. As a rule, though, if the temperature is nice, then they sit still and seem to enjoy it. If the water is too cool, then they try to climb out. For a healthy tortoise, I don't mind taking them out after 5 minutes if they really don't want to sit still. But for a sick one, I leave them in for the full half hour, even if they don't seem to want to. But again, the right temperature goes a long way toward calming them down.

Curious that your girl has inflamed, puffy eyes if everything in her environment seems okay. Hey, what about the lighting? Does she have one of those coiled compact fluorescent bulbs? If so, then that could be the reason. Those are known to hurt tortoises' eyes, and can eventually even blind them permanently unless replaced with a safer form of lighting.

 

[Irwin4530]

She has a 100 war power sun MVB.

She was very sick when I got her a few years ago, she came to me with a cold and gets them easily. She will soak well and does so every week....but I did miss last week. . Could she be chronically deficient? And that is why she is so touchy?

Can it (Should I) soak the whole herd as a preventative??

---

When she gets sick I soak her daily in warm baths and keep her warm and isolated .... Never with the carrots and eye drops though.....and she comes around in a few days.

Could this also be the cause of her
"Disorganized" eggs?

 

[GeoTerraTestudo]

She has a 100 war power sun MVB.

She was very sick when I got her a few years ago, she came to me with a cold and gets them easily. She will soak well and does so every week....but I did miss last week. . Could she be chronically deficient? And that is why she is so touchy?

Can it (Should I) soak the whole herd as a preventative??

---

When she gets sick I soak her daily in warm baths and keep her warm and isolated .... Never with the carrots and eye drops though.....and she comes around in a few days.

Could this also be the cause of her
"Disorganized" eggs?

---

I see. Well, carrot baby food baths are good for the sick ones (especially those that are vitamin deficient). However, all tortoises and box turtles should be getting regular warm water baths. Moist habitat chelonians, like redfoots and box turtles, definitely need more moisture. But even drier land tortoises, like Testudo and Gopherus species, sulcatas, and leopard tortoises still need regular bathing. Think of it as simulating the rains they would get in the wild, which give them a chance to drink and replenish their body's moisture. In addition to always having a shallow water dish available, they also need a moist substrate that can provide a humid microclimate. My box turtles and redfoot tortoise used to have more humid enclosures than my Russians now, but I have always bathed everyone once every week - and more often if they were not feeling good for one reason or another. Some folks like to bathe theirs more frequently. I think we have to strike a balance between providing them with the moisture they need, and minimizing the stress they have to endure.

I'm afraid I didn't read the thread on her "disorganized eggs," but yes, it could all be related. That could be due to an unsuitable substrate, but it could also be due to illness, such as malnutrition or infection. Could you link me to your thread about her other problems?

 

[Irwin4530]

Can't seem to attach the thread from my phone But it was called "all yolk"..... There really was nothing to it ...no extensive replies. Other then the puffy eyes (and sometimes closed eyes) she hasn't had any other issues And always responds well to the warm soaks.... I am anxious that She is not entirely over the cold when I stop the treatment.

Her bedding is a coconut coir/ cypress mulch mixture And I keep it very damp. She does have a freshwater source large enough that she can get into it but small enough that she cannot drown or flip over without being able to right herself or escape. In every other way ....even now ....she seems healthy.
Not The best picture but this was from this evenings feeding

---

*note*
Last year she gave me three big 21-23g eggs.. They lasted several months before cracking and leaking. when I opened them and looked inside they appeared disorganized. They had been in the incubator for over 40 days and no sign of any development.... They were all yolk. The year before she gave me one smaller egg and it stayed in the incubator until it turned black.

It should be noted that I am using a homemade incubator not store-bought one.

 

[GeoTerraTestudo]

Can't seem to attach the thread from my phone But it was called "all yolk"..... There really was nothing to it ...no extensive replies...

Last year she gave me three big 21-23g eggs.. They lasted several months before cracking and leaking. when I opened them and looked inside they appeared disorganized. They had been in the incubator for over 40 days and no sign of any development.... They were all yolk. The year before she gave me one smaller egg and it stayed in the incubator until it turned black.

It should be noted that I am using a homemade incubator not store-bought one.

Well, if it's a homemade incubator, it might not be reliable enough. Perhaps you'd have more success with a commercial one. I also found your other thread and commented on it. Basically, I gave two possible reasons for why that egg did not survive incubation: the eggs might have been unfertilized, or they might've had thin eggshells. How did your other eggs do?

"All yolk??"

Other then the puffy eyes (and sometimes closed eyes) she hasn't had any other issues And always responds well to the warm soaks.... I am anxious that She is not entirely over the cold when I stop the treatment...

Her bedding is a coconut coir/ cypress mulch mixture And I keep it very damp. She does have a freshwater source large enough that she can get into it but small enough that she cannot drown or flip over without being able to right herself or escape. In every other way ....even now ....she seems healthy.
Not The best picture but this was from this evenings feeding

I bolded the part in that passage that could explain her problems. Tortoises do need moisture, but they should not have dampness. Moist substrate is neither dry nor damp. It just holds enough water in its pores to feel a bit humid. Dampness occurs when the water holding capacity of the substrate has been exceeded. In other words, there is excess water that the substrate cannot hold onto, and that creates wetness. Chronically wet conditions are not good for tortoises, and can lead to illness, including upper respiratory tract infections (UTIs), shell rot, and others. That could explain the chronically puffy eyes; it might not be a vitamin deficiency, but rather a cold that never quite goes away. My suggestion would be to let the substrate dry out a bit, so that it is only moist, but not damp. I use pure coco coir. The top few millimeters are drier and lighter in color, while the subsurface layers stay more moist and darker in color. But there is no excess water between the coco coir granules.

 

[Irwin4530]

Thank you! Ill let it dry out this week!!
I'm frustrated because I thought I was doing the right thing.... Because of her puffy eyes I kept it wetter than my other enclosures.... I thought her eyes were drying out And that she just had seasonal type colds . She is very healthy when outside for the summer And I thought the confinement of the indoor shed, dry bedding etc. were affected her So I kept her extra damp.
I could kick myself!!

None of her eggs ever hatched for me, They all split open after several weeks in the homemade incubator . Any babies I have ever gotten have hatched outside naturally.

She's a good girl and I want the best for her thank you so much for your help!!

For the time being I will continue the soaks. should I remove the carrot or leave it in just in case?

 

[GeoTerraTestudo]

Thank you! Ill let it dry out this week!!
I'm frustrated because I thought I was doing the right thing.... Because of her puffy eyes I kept it wetter than my other enclosures.... I thought her eyes were drying out And that she just had seasonal type colds . She is very healthy when outside for the summer And I thought the confinement of the indoor shed, dry bedding etc. were affected her So I kept her extra damp.
I could kick myself!!

None of her eggs ever hatched for me, They all split open after several weeks in the homemade incubator . Any babies I have ever gotten have hatched outside naturally.

She's a good girl and I want the best for her thank you so much for your help!!

For the time being I will continue the soaks. should I remove the carrot or leave it in just in case?

Re: Breeding
Well, sounds like either the incubator is bad, or else the eggs were infertile. If this female's eggs have hatched successfully outside, then I would say not to use that incubator anymore, because it's probably unsafe. Perhaps in your climate, you could let all your eggs incubate naturally outside.

Re: Puffy eyes
Of course, ideal conditions are the best. But if you had to err on one side or the other, it's better to go too dry than too wet. Baby tortoises can develop pyramiding from conditions that are too dry. However, once they get a bit older, tortoises native to drier areas (like Russians) can handle dry conditions by drinking and soaking more, retaining more moisture from their food, and excreting less urine (which can lead to kidney problems over time). We would also need to bathe them more. However, if their environment is too wet, such tortoises can rather quickly develop shell rot and respiratory infections, which can be lethal. So, although they need the right moisture level, when in doubt, let them be dry rather than wet. These are, after all, fully terrestrial tortoises (even semi-terrestrial turtles need a moist, but not damp, resting place). Actually, tortoises are a bit like us. We need to eat and drink enough, we need to bathe from time to time, and we prefer moderate humidity levels. However, if we were to sit in wetness all the time, we would develop skin lesions, fungal infections, etc. Better to just stay dry and get some moisture when you need it, than to be wet all the time.

So, for your enclosure, I'd say take the tortoise out and turn the substrate over, even blow dry it if you wish, to let the excess water evaporate away. As for the tortoise, I'd say continue with the daily warm water carrot baby food baths, just to make sure she's getting what she needs, both in terms of moisture and nutrition. Once the swelling in her eyes has gone down, you can return to the regular schedule of bathing her just once or twice a week. I think she's going to be fine now.