What the heck is she doing???

[Granolagal]

Lately Zippy has taken to trying to mount?? my smaller tortoise Turbo when they are having a soak. I know that we established that Zippy is a girl but what she is doing seems very male. She tries to get on Turbo's back and bite at his head while making strange squeaking noises. Is this a dominance thing that females also display?

Any insights would be great!
Cheers!

 

[Yvonne G]

Yes, females do it too. It is a dominance thing, just like you suspected. If Turbo is very much smaller, you might have to separate them. Zippy is telling Turbo to get out of her territory, as there's only room enough for her in it! And since there's no place for Turbo to go, he just might stop eating and stay hiding all the time to be out of her sight.

 

[Granolagal]

Thanks Yvonne!

They do still have separate enclosures, it is only during their weekly bath that they are together...or when sharing the occasional hibiscus flower after their tub. They seem to be fine with sharing flowers...it's just the tub for now I guess. Turbo is significantly smaller than Zippy still, I was hoping to be able to put them in their new outdoor enclosure together this summer... we shall see, as I can't have poor Turbo stressed and being climbed on all of the time.

Thanks again your insights and advice are always appreciated and definitely valued ) Turbo's eyes are 100% again because of your help!! yay thank you thank you!

Cheers,
Carley

 

[Yvonne G]

The outside enclosure might be just fine. Because it will be bigger than the inside one, and probably have more visual barriers. They probably can be together outside without a problem.

 

[TortoiseMD]

I noticed that on 2 of my Russian female tortoises few days back, one of them was mounting the other one raming the shell few times and emitting high pitched sounds then she urinated !!!, I know it is a sign of aggression, but never seen it happen exactly like a mating process.

 

[terracolson]

Spring is in the air

 

[GBtortoises]

Female Northern Mediterranean and Russian tortoises aren't actually showing true territorial displays by doing this as males do because females don't have a true marked territory as a males does. Instead what females are doing when they display male aggression tendencies is one or more of a couple of things:

In young females it may often be a case of them coming into maturity. Even as small as 3-4". Think of them as young teenagers trying to figure out what to do with what they have just discovered they have! That's a very simple explanation of it. Young adult size and definitely older adults will often mount other females and males when they are ready to be bred. Often mounting other females and even ramming and biting them, exactly like a male does. When that female is gravid, "needs" to be bred or is defending a prime nesting spot that she wants to keep other females away from they will also act much like a dominant male. In most cases females will do no serious harm to other females since they do not reach the aggression level that a male would in the same situation. Interestly, I've seen my female Hermann's especially act like this, almost always with a male present. Immediately after the female dismounts another female she will go directly to the male and mating between them often takes place. I have always felt that this might be a way that the female gets the male interested so to speak. By acting like another male in his territory, she may be encouraging him to mate with her in order for him to show his dominance and ownership of that territory.

Are you positive that you have a female doing this?

 

[Granolagal]

Hmmm, very cool thank you.

There are picture of Zippy that were just unanamously considered female. Though, she is still relatively young- too young to breed. Nothing male 'popped out' during this Perhaps you migh have a peek at her pic and see what you think. Her tail definitely looks female to me...

 

[GBtortoises]

For my own curiousity, because I am obsessed with tortoise behavior-how big is each of them SCL? Do you have photos of their lower plastron showing the tail section?

I looked on your profile but did not find a link to photos. I'd love to see them!

 

[Granolagal]

For my own curiousity, because I am obsessed with tortoise behavior-how big is each of them SCL? Do you have photos of their lower plastron showing the tail section?

I looked on your profile but did not find a link to photos. I'd love to see them!

If you click on my name and go to 'threads' it should be the second one "Any Guesses on Zippy's sex".

Let me know if this doesn't work and I will re-post them for you...

 

[GBtortoises]

Thanks! I did that before but must have looked right past the obvious post! Looks to be about 4-4 1/2" is that about right? Certainly looks like a female in the photo.

 

[TortoiseMD]

Female Northern Mediterranean and Russian tortoises aren't actually showing true territorial displays by doing this as males do because females don't have a true marked territory as a males does. Instead what females are doing when they display male aggression tendencies is one or more of a couple of things:

In young females it may often be a case of them coming into maturity. Even as small as 3-4". Think of them as young teenagers trying to figure out what to do with what they have just discovered they have! That's a very simple explanation of it. Young adult size and definitely older adults will often mount other females and males when they are ready to be bred. Often mounting other females and even ramming and biting them, exactly like a male does. When that female is gravid, "needs" to be bred or is defending a prime nesting spot that she wants to keep other females away from they will also act much like a dominant male. In most cases females will do no serious harm to other females since they do not reach the aggression level that a male would in the same situation. Interestly, I've seen my female Hermann's especially act like this, almost always with a male present. Immediately after the female dismounts another female she will go directly to the male and mating between them often takes place. I have always felt that this might be a way that the female gets the male interested so to speak. By acting like another male in his territory, she may be encouraging him to mate with her in order for him to show his dominance and ownership of that territory.

Are you positive that you have a female doing this?

Thank you , great information.