I want to switch my russian's substrate to a mix of 70/30 topsoil/playsand. However, I don't know what to look for to be sure it isn't harmful. I can't get the soil out of my yard since I have two dogs, so I need to buy it. Am I looking for sterilized top soil? And sterilized playsand? Does anyone know where I can find this and how to make sure it does not have any pesticides?
What to buy for a top soil/playsand mix?
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Read the ingredients on the bags of topsoil. Most aren't soil at all, but a mixture of peat and sand. I'm not a fan of sand in any quantities, though. I use something called humus and manure. Doesn't seem likeoil either, too black.
I've used a soil mix with sand and been very happy with it. I basically followed the most common guidelines-
- About equal amounts by weight of soil and sand, well mixed. But, I generally cheat and don't use that much sand.
- I just used cheap bagged topsoil that was real soil and not enhanced or anything
- Plain cheap playground sand. If it is clean enough for the kids of litigious parents to use, it is OK for tortoises.
- Added some other stuff- peat moss, whatever left over coir and mulch I had, etc. to keep it from compacting so much.
I also made it a 'bioactive substrate' by adding some soil from the garden to inoculate it with micro-organisms, and some worms and wood lice or pill bugs, which help condition the soil and feed on the eggs and young of the more common pests. The other benefits of the bioactive substrate are that it helps break down small amounts of waste matter, helps make the place smell better, and changes the texture of the soil to something silkier that does not stick to your hand or the tortoise as easily.
https://sites.google.com/site/tortoiselibrary/the-work-shop/substrates-1
- About equal amounts by weight of soil and sand, well mixed. But, I generally cheat and don't use that much sand.
- I just used cheap bagged topsoil that was real soil and not enhanced or anything
- Plain cheap playground sand. If it is clean enough for the kids of litigious parents to use, it is OK for tortoises.
- Added some other stuff- peat moss, whatever left over coir and mulch I had, etc. to keep it from compacting so much.
I also made it a 'bioactive substrate' by adding some soil from the garden to inoculate it with micro-organisms, and some worms and wood lice or pill bugs, which help condition the soil and feed on the eggs and young of the more common pests. The other benefits of the bioactive substrate are that it helps break down small amounts of waste matter, helps make the place smell better, and changes the texture of the soil to something silkier that does not stick to your hand or the tortoise as easily.
https://sites.google.com/site/tortoiselibrary/the-work-shop/substrates-1
Mark, I was just about to order pillbugs, did one last internet search. I found a bunch of gardeners complaining that the pillbugs were eating their seedlings. I want to grow edible plants right in the substrate and don't want to confound those efforts by adding pillbugs. Do you grow seedlings and have pillbugs?
I'm not a big fan of sand
Pillbugs- I did not have a problem- they do not seem to bother all kinds of plants equally. But why buy them? You probably have lots in your back yard.
Sand- I would never force someone to use sand, and pure sand is a bad idea for several reasons. But lots of keepers have kept lots of species on sand/soil mixes without impaction. In fact, most tortoises in the world naturally live in sandy soils. Impactions seem to be at least as much the result of dehydration as they are of anything else.
I think the sand issue is just like the spinach issue- a few people have bad experiences with it, and their is a valid reason to avoid overdoing it, so it gets blown a little out of proportion.
Sand- I would never force someone to use sand, and pure sand is a bad idea for several reasons. But lots of keepers have kept lots of species on sand/soil mixes without impaction. In fact, most tortoises in the world naturally live in sandy soils. Impactions seem to be at least as much the result of dehydration as they are of anything else.
I think the sand issue is just like the spinach issue- a few people have bad experiences with it, and their is a valid reason to avoid overdoing it, so it gets blown a little out of proportion.
I cant stand sand and soil for my indoor enclosures. It's very messy and just sticks to everything. I only use orchid bark and cypress mulch inside. The soil/sand mixture does look extremely nice though. Heres sand you can get http://reviews.homedepot.com/1999/202007298/50-lb-play-sand-reviews/reviews.htm and heres soil you can get http://www.homedepot.com/h_d1/N-5yc...Id=-1&keyword=soil&storeId=10051#.UBNtrZh7TzI I use this soil for my outdoor enclosures and love it.
Sand = no no
I use a topsoil/Cyprus mulch mix
Madkins007 said:
Okay, I'm going to try them. I have been looking for them here for a couple of years now and have not seen even one. I should be able to lift a rock in the garden area and see them, or see them walking on the surface when it's a little wet, and they just aren't here.
Madkins007 said:
Our soil here is sand, very fine, and I'm going to add some of that to my substrate. The 'topsoil' that is sold here is also sand, not nearly so fine.
Eweezyfosheezy said:
Converting the soil mix to a bioactive substrate really changes the texture- it is silkier and does not stick. It also minimizes odors and bugs. You should give it a try if you have a chance.
Where do you get your bedding or which brands do you get? I can test it this winter on some of the youngins.Madkins007 said:
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Doesn't anyone follow the conversation on Russian Tortoise yahoo group, or russiantortoise.org? Best substrate is 50/50 coir/playsand.
Hi uponthesun:
Won't you take a few moments to start a new thread in the "introductions" section and tell us a bit about yourself?
Been there, done that!! We have discovered that a 50/50 mix isn't the best mixture. Most of us here who use the coco coir would rather use a 30/70 mix with not much sand. And some of us don't like coir or sand at all. I much prefer orchid bark.
Won't you take a few moments to start a new thread in the "introductions" section and tell us a bit about yourself?
Been there, done that!! We have discovered that a 50/50 mix isn't the best mixture. Most of us here who use the coco coir would rather use a 30/70 mix with not much sand. And some of us don't like coir or sand at all. I much prefer orchid bark.
Eweezyfosheezy said:
I am not a garden kinda guy, so I just went to Home Depot and got generic top soil and playbox sand, then used what I had sitting around for other projects in terms of peat moss, some sort of shredded wood stuff, and left-over coconut coir (unlike many other people here, I really don't like coir in my habitats.)
Toss in a couple scoops of active garden soil- you WANT as many bugs and stuff as you can get in it. I used about 4 cups worth for an area that was 8x4 and just about 8" deep. I tossed in about a dozen wood lice/pillbugs, and a couple cups of worms from a bait shop.
It took a couple weeks, but sure enough, just as the other books say, the soil stopped having much of a scent, and changed texture to something softer and much less sticky. The pests also vanished.
You need to stir it up- the tortoises will compact it to nothing quickly. More mulch stuff might help with that. I generally stirred it every could days by sections.
I will not be using it as much this winter in the new big indoors habitat, though, because it takes so much of it to cover a big space right and it weighs a ton when moving it in or out. I am thinking about just setting a big tub of it in the habitat for digging in and for raising some plants in.
That does sound like it would be a quite heavy habitat. I will try to see if I can get something like this going. You think something like this would work good in a greenhouse?
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I use 66% eco earth and 33% playsand (2 to 1). Jumby seems to like it, it allows him to burrow quite well, and I try to avoid most impaction issues with a large slate tile he eats on. I mix a small amount of organic soil in there now and then from my organic garden and it adds the little critters to make it "alive" quite well.
Eweezyfosheezy said:
Indoor or outdoor? i don't know why not in either case.
Madkins007 said:
Outdoor. It just seems like that would be an ideal type of substrate mixture with that type of environment.
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