OMary
Member
Ironically my picker eater is the healthy one. He is just picky about what he devours! 
Hatchling Failure Syndrome?
- Thread starter OMary
- Start date
just because you don't see the bullying dominate behavior doesn't mean it doesn't happen it's good that your separating them
mazuri isn't crap don't get me wrong it's not meant to be fed everyday and it depends on what formula you use but once or twice a month actually does some good
mazuri isn't crap don't get me wrong it's not meant to be fed everyday and it depends on what formula you use but once or twice a month actually does some good
OMary
Member
The tunnel now has some bark over it too. The corner, which you can only see some pebbles, is where their water is, same plant saucer as food dish but a smaller one. 
The yellow pot now contains a spider plant that gives them lots of hide area. I also have a hide log standing upright in the corner that was empty here. 
This is a separate hide area that they rarely go in. It is where I am setting up the smaller tort today. 
Outside view, just because it turned out so nice! It now has plexi glass on the top making it a closed system.
This picture doesn't capture the size difference, and it is also greater now, I think. I need to get a scale. The one on top is the smaller one. The one on bottom is larger and feels like a rock when I lift him, whereas the other one feels like a feather.
Turtlepete
Well-Known Member
Lots of misleading replies here guys. Tortoises are not strictly docile, big hermann's breeders raise these guys together in groups. Hate to tell you that at the hatchling age, if they were to be stressed by the "competition of others", 20 would be a whole lot worse than 2. Eventually they will definitely reach the age where aggression is a high possibility, but I'd bet it's not present at this age. Will he benefit from separation? Maybe, maybe not. I've had some tortoises (not hermanns) that did exponentially better in the presence of others. Sometimes seeing others eat encourages them to do the same.
What you definitely can do is improve on your enclosure a bit. Nice design, but wheres the plants? Spice it up a little bit. They need to feel comfortable, which requires cover and plenty of places to hide under, they do not like to be exposed. Some are more outgoing and not bothered by this exposure, some will never leave the hide because of it. Individuals vary vastly. Do also keep in mind they will grow at hugely varying rates, and just because one is growing faster and is heavier then the other doesn't necessarily mean the smaller one is sick.
Make sure to soak the sick one daily. Try to make it like a spa….Warm water in an enclosed container where the humidity spikes high. This will get them moving and active and does wonders to hydrate them. Attempt to feed him immediately after. You could try feeding him alone in a sterile container, some respond well to that. Try every different food item you could dream of.
Do not count out Mazuri. Some have had incredible results with Mazuri, actual results based on trial that discount speculation based on ingredients. It's not for every day food, but it's a damn good supplement. Try some soaked Mazuri, maybe he'll like it.
What you definitely can do is improve on your enclosure a bit. Nice design, but wheres the plants? Spice it up a little bit. They need to feel comfortable, which requires cover and plenty of places to hide under, they do not like to be exposed. Some are more outgoing and not bothered by this exposure, some will never leave the hide because of it. Individuals vary vastly. Do also keep in mind they will grow at hugely varying rates, and just because one is growing faster and is heavier then the other doesn't necessarily mean the smaller one is sick.
Make sure to soak the sick one daily. Try to make it like a spa….Warm water in an enclosed container where the humidity spikes high. This will get them moving and active and does wonders to hydrate them. Attempt to feed him immediately after. You could try feeding him alone in a sterile container, some respond well to that. Try every different food item you could dream of.
Do not count out Mazuri. Some have had incredible results with Mazuri, actual results based on trial that discount speculation based on ingredients. It's not for every day food, but it's a damn good supplement. Try some soaked Mazuri, maybe he'll like it.
Sorry but I simply must ask, is that sand substrate I'm seeing?
OMary
Member
The enclosure is when I first got them into it. I do have plants now- a huge spider plant providing lots of shade, and bark in areas. It looks much better now!
The substrate is 50% topsoil and 50% play sand. I did recently add some coconut coir to help hold humidity better (not in pic).
Humidity is ranging from 60-80%. Should I keep it more towards 80%? I worry about night time temps (low 70s using IR lamp) possibly causing an URI with the higher humidity.
I am soaking her for 30 min daily, and she does eat right after. She is just not efficient at getting much into the mouth- kind of like that little kid who is at the table forever, but doesn't get much in. She is only pooping every 3 days (and it is rather small), and the other one poops lots daily, even though he spends much less time in the food dish. He feeds himself much better.
The substrate is 50% topsoil and 50% play sand. I did recently add some coconut coir to help hold humidity better (not in pic).
Humidity is ranging from 60-80%. Should I keep it more towards 80%? I worry about night time temps (low 70s using IR lamp) possibly causing an URI with the higher humidity.
I am soaking her for 30 min daily, and she does eat right after. She is just not efficient at getting much into the mouth- kind of like that little kid who is at the table forever, but doesn't get much in. She is only pooping every 3 days (and it is rather small), and the other one poops lots daily, even though he spends much less time in the food dish. He feeds himself much better.
Turtlepete
Well-Known Member
Ah, that is good.
I can't speak on humidity, I have very little experience with arid species. I wouldn't let the temps go low at night though, if you can find a way to manage that. They are little, keep the temp's high at all times, there is little benefit from a night time drop in temperature at their age and I wouldn't allow the sick one to be exposed to lower temperatures.
OMary
Member
Should I maybe try soaking twice daily to increase eating? I do occasionally pick her up and place her in the food dish. She does eat some when I do this. Maybe I should chop the food up so she is more efficient?! But even with the Repashy Grassland made as a gel, she takes these tiny bites compared to the other tort...Maybe I will give Mazuri a try :-( If she likes it the way she goes for hibiscus, she just might get more in her.
OMary
Member
Thanks Turtlepete! I have been back and forth in my mind which is worse- lower night time temps or her possibly getting dehydrated sitting under the IR lamp at night. I can keep temps higher.
You only really need to worry about uri with COLD and damp. Warm/hot and damp is no problem. Bounce over to the section of the Forum of specie specific and you will find many answers to questions you've not even thought of yet.
@HermanniChris mentioned something about them needing a lower night time temperature perhaps he can chime in on this
M
Maggie Cummings
Guest
I would be glad to foster your baby for while and see what I can do,if you can't get him going right....
M
Maggie Cummings
Guest
I would never tell you to do something that would stress out any animal. The best thing you can do for them is to socialize them. Hold'em, play with them, and give them an interesting life. I hold all my chelonia, it does not stress them out. That's an old wives tale
OMary
Member
Thanks maggie3fan! I really may take you up on that.
OMary
Member
@maggie3fan I hand fed her tonight, and she ate! I fed her a hibiscus petal (her favorite). I am going to hand feed her after her bath tomorrow to see if I can get more in her. She definitely ate that petal much faster than she normally eats on her own.
Try soaking in Hal's carrot baby food and water or an electrolyte solution. I Soaked 3 times a day for take ask 30 min sometimes longer.I had a baby Sulcata who sadly passed due to hatchling failure she lasted 4 weeks and if that's what it is there's nothing you can do.
How do you keep your humidity up?
The only WRONG question is one that you never ask ask away, we all try to help here to the best of our ability. And yes, one of mine is a Cherryhead, he's the one who gave me so much worry in first couple of months. As you can see he's doing really well now. He did that "failing attempt to bite" too and still does at times that's why I started giving him almost puree consistency, just to reduce his energy consumption at managing food even before the point of a swallow. To this day I still offer varied consistency, from whole leaves, to finely chopped salad mix, all the way to puree, this way I'm absolutely confident that when he is hungry he can always get his nourishment. It's important to learn what their favorites are. I often put things in separate little piles and watch them eat. This way we can get them to eat what's good for them when it's mixed with their favorites.I love the pics Pearly! I will try hand feeding then too. She perks up with baths, which lead me to increasing humidity, which has helped some. She is very "awkward" eating. She will try to bite a piece of greens and miss, try again and miss, out of 5 tries, she succeeds maybe once. She has always been like this, and I thought it was her smaller size at first. Her absolute favorite thing is hibiscus flowers (but my plant only has so many blooms)! The other one takes huge chomps and misses maybe once every 5 times, whereas she has opposite rates of success. Let me see if I can post pics and what I have...okay, I have problems ever since Apple changed the way pics are kept. Let me post separately in a bit. I wish I could post video of her efforts. She just doesn't have the vitality, but she does get 100% for effort.
Looks like one of yours is a cherry head, right? They are really pretty, and their food looks very interesting!
Pearly, I am going to read your post again, and likely ask for more details on this pampering stuff and what I should be doing, and signs for if I am helping or just stressing her out more.
I have a Reptifogger and love that thing! Run it for about 10-15 minutes at breakfast time every day. Plus live plants, moss, water dish underneath the lamp... and closed system. It's always humid in there
Omg! Your babies are ADORABLE!!!! If it's same thing my baby did, I wouldn't bother giving her whole leaves, she can't manage it. Try the babyfood carrot soaks for her and, try pureeing her food and I'd give in and try little Mazuri. Just few pellets. Soak them in warm water or juice, mash up and try giving little of it by itself and little of it mixed with the best "power green" that's on your tort's diet list. I'm not familiar with it, so can't advise more on the food items. I have also used organic baby food veggies, some fruits and meats for my little babies. They loved those every time. If there is a vegetable that your tort can eat, maybe try that, just to get her interest. I think part of the problem with mine was that he was too young to be shipped out. He still had very prominent egg tooth and fresh yolk scar on his belly. I'm telling you all this because yours maybe also younger than the bigger one. Or... she indeed is having hard time due to how she was hatched and started to begin with. You never know. Anyway, give her a chance, don't give up on her, keep trying till you find what works for she and you. Who knows, she may become your best pet everView attachment 163341 The tunnel now has some bark over it too. The corner, which you can only see some pebbles, is where their water is, same plant saucer as food dish but a smaller one. View attachment 163342 The yellow pot now contains a spider plant that gives them lots of hide area. I also have a hide log standing upright in the corner that was empty here. View attachment 163343This is a separate hide area that they rarely go in. It is where I am setting up the smaller tort today. View attachment 163345 Outside view, just because it turned out so nice!
