Coccidia

ShreddersMom

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So my guy tested positive for a moderate amount of Coccidia. Picking up dewormer tomorrow. Anything to watch for? He got a clean bill of health, blood work was great, and my doc said he's one of the bets looking and healthiest torts she's seen in a long time. Just keeping an eye out. She said lethargy, anorexia, and diarrhea. Anything else? She's suspecting he's had it a while based on his numbers, but he's not currently symptomatic.
 

Yvonne G

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De-worming medicine is a type of poison. Soak him daily for at least a half hour. It should be ok. I've dewormed many a tortoise and haven't seen all that many bad reactions.
 

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Coccidia is a protozoan. Why would your vet treat this with a wormer? Also, I've not heard of many cases where coccidia was a problem for tortoises. In my experience this is more of a problem with puppies.

This is admittedly out of my area of expertise, but it doesn't sound right to me. @deadheadvet ? Would you mind eradicating some more of my ignorance and shedding some light on this for me?
 
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deadheadvet

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What species of tortoise are we talking about. I'm assuming the test was sent out to U of F for PCR. Intranuclear Coccidia is a disaster disease.
Soaking the tortoise by itself is always a good idea, but. As of now, Unknown spread and how it became infected. I don't advise empirical deworming on tortoises, but in this case, treatment is an absolute. At appropriate doses prescribed by your vet, the tortoise should not be affected by the medication. Treatment for Coccidia is Ponazuril compounded at 100mg/Kg B.W. every other day for up to 10 months.
 

deadheadvet

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Depending on the weight, it could get expensive. There is a pharmacy in Ariz. that can make a concentration of 250mg/ml. So at 100mg/Kg for example, a 10kg tortoise will need 1000mg every other day. That is 4ml orally every other day. Cost for 30ml is about 170$
 

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I misspoke. It's a sulfa drug, not a dewormer. And it's not a compounded drug at all. It's something we carry in house, as we treat reptiles with it all the time. This was a regular fecal done by a laboratory that picked up coccidia ova in the sample. Coccidia can be found in tortoises, my vet wasn't surprised. And he owns two sulcatas himself. Reptiles, including bearded dragons, iguanas, and such can have coccidia. It's not intra nuclear coccidiosis. It's an intestinal protozoa.
 

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Depending on the weight, it could get expensive. There is a pharmacy in Ariz. that can make a concentration of 250mg/ml. So at 100mg/Kg for example, a 10kg tortoise will need 1000mg every other day. That is 4ml orally every other day. Cost for 30ml is about 170$
I've used that pharmacy. They were compounding special formulation of Prozac for one of my cats. They offer great and very efficient service. Great staff on the phone lines, great support. To me it had been worth every penny, and I had used them for several years until just few weeks ago (this kitty died at 17 yrs of age). Don't have first hand experience with coccidia, but have had some with another protozoan infection and know how hard it can be to treat and how long it can take. Just wanted to say that I totally recommend this pharmacy to compound your torts' drugs.
 

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I'm confused. We had a puppy with coccidia. Now what exactly is Intranuclear Coccidia? Same pathogen with a different presentation? Different pathogen?
 

deadheadvet

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Without id of the protozoan, I suspect your sulfa drug will be ineffective. Albon is very old school. Ponazuril is the drug of choice for coccidia. Coccidia in tortoises is not the same species as others. The likelihood of what the vet reported as coccidia may be something else. Or a different species. Intranuclear Coccidia is a protozoan living inside the he cell. That is why we do not find it on routine fecal analysis. I would be reluctant to use Sulfa drug without being sure you are treating appropriately.
 
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deadheadvet

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Coccidia in mammals is Isospora. Coccidia in reptiles is Eimeria. They look different under the microscope.
 

deadheadvet

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To clarify coccidia in Dragons and Chameleons, geckos are a different species of coccidia. It is not the same organism in tortoises.
 

ShreddersMom

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I understand it is species specific. But this was, indeed, found on routine fecals. After letting the reptile veterinarian I work for read this thread, she disagreed with most of it, and we rechecked a fecal in house. Coccidia is found on microscopic fecal exam. So yes, he has Coccidia. And not intra nuclear Coccidia. Just plain ol' run of the mill intestinal protozoa.
 

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After letting the reptile veterinarian I work for read this thread, she disagreed with most of it...

I'm trying to learn here. Would you please elaborate about what your vet disagreed with?

What type of coccidia is showing up in the fecal on your tortoise?
 

deadheadvet

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If the tortoise is shedding oocysts as much as you say, take a pic w/ your phone of the microscope slide and post it to confirm the diagnosis. Just put the camera up to the eyepiece in focus and take a pic. Still have my doubts.
 

ShreddersMom

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You can have your doubts, as I'm not paying for a third fecal. This post wasn't made to second guess a diagnosis. I saw it with my own two eyes, which is more than enough for me. I was only looking for tips as to what to watch for since he was diagnosed with it. I don't know-how we gotta far off topic that I have to prove a diagnosis to anyone. But I think it's time to be done with this thread, as it's gotten beyond ridiculous. Every have a great Memorial Day!
 

Pearly

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You can have your doubts, as I'm not paying for a third fecal. This post wasn't made to second guess a diagnosis. I saw it with my own two eyes, which is more than enough for me. I was only looking for tips as to what to watch for since he was diagnosed with it. I don't know-how we gotta far off topic that I have to prove a diagnosis to anyone. But I think it's time to be done with this thread, as it's gotten beyond ridiculous. Every have a great Memorial Day!
No need to get upset. People are just trying to help you out with the information available. This is a friendly forum. We are all friends here. And happy Memorial Day to you as well:)
 

Tom

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If the tortoise is shedding oocysts as much as you say, take a pic w/ your phone of the microscope slide and post it to confirm the diagnosis. Just put the camera up to the eyepiece in focus and take a pic. Still have my doubts.

Its unfortunate that the OP is not interested in what you have to offer, but I feel it important to let you know your time and effort is not wasted here. I thank you for taking the time to share your extensive knowledge about tortoise veterinary care with us. I, and other readers, are picking up what you are putting down. Thanks!
 

Pearly

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Its unfortunate that the OP is not interested in what you have to offer, but I feel it important to let you know your time and effort is not wasted here. I thank you for taking the time to share your extensive knowledge about tortoise veterinary care with us. I, and other readers, are picking up what you are putting down. Thanks!
I second that. God knows I'm learning a lot on here! We all come up with good ideas and observations at times but having hard science, evidence based "know how" handed to us in small "digestable pieces" is awesome in my book! Thank you for that
 

deadheadvet

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Intranuclear coccidiosis in tortoises: nine cases.
Garner MM1, Gardiner CH, Wellehan JF, Johnson AJ, McNamara T, Linn M, Terrell SP, Childress A, Jacobson ER.
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Abstract

Chelonian intranuclear coccidiosis has been reported once, in two radiated tortoises (Geochelone radiata), and is apparently rare. We describe intranuclear coccidiosis diagnosed histologically in two radiated tortoises, three Travancore tortoises (Indotestudo forstenii), two leopard tortoises (Geochelone pardalis), one bowsprit tortoise (Chersina angulata), and one impressed tortoise (Manouria impressa). Infection was systemic and involved alimentary, urogenital, respiratory, lymphoid, endocrine, and integumentary systems. Trophozoites, meronts, merozoites, macrogametocytes, microgametocytes, and nonsporulated oocysts were seen histologically or by electron microscopy. Intracytoplasmic and extracellular stages of parasite development also were identified histologically. Sequencing of a coccidial 18S rRNA consensus polymerase chain reaction (PCR) product revealed a novel sequence that provided phylogenetic information and may be useful for further diagnostic test design. Intranuclear coccidiosis was associated with variable degrees of inflammation in all cases, was considered the cause of death in six tortoises, and was a substantial contributing factor to the cause of death in two tortoises.

Best advice I have is that there is current literature showing Coccidia in Tortoises as an intranuclear form that has been discussed here.
 
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