new redfoot tortoises

[Grateful_TBC]

Hello! First, thank you everyone for all of your amazing information on this site! I have learned a ton so far along with the books and other FB sites I am in. I own a certified organic farm in south fl and we grow all sorts of greens, herbs, fruits, micro greens and we are most known for gourmet mushrooms. I am going to start planting some dandelion and green plantain as I heard it was a good part of their diet. My neighbor cannot care for their two 7 year old male redfoots and I am just beginning to build out my fenced in backyard and I am looking for any recommendations of what plants may be good for them. (They will be living outside) I am going to build them a little hiding spot covered in moss. I just want to make sure their area is prepared prior to bringing them over so there is the least amount of stress possible. For a new tortoise owner any uncommon tips would be appreciated about diet ect. I heard that their daily food amount should be the size of their shell. Is that depth as well of just a layer of the length. I haven't met them yet but I have seen pictures and there is some pyramiding and their skin and shells looks quite dry. At the moment they are eating predominately mazuri feed and not much fresh food. I was planning on feeding a mostly a fresh diet I just want to ensure they are thriving. I am a bit nervous Hahahaa I just want to make sure I am doing everything to help them have the best life possible. The neighbors 5 year old female just passed away but they didn't say the reason. They also have a female baby my sister will take and I will have her join this as well to ask her own questions. She lives here so she has access to all of the things we grow as well. Thank you in advance and I really appreciate any advise for this newbie!

 

[Alex and the Redfoot]

Hello and welcome!

For general information on redfoots care you can read this post: https://tortoiseforum.org/threads/redfoot-tortoise-care-sheet.175319/

For outdoor enclosures (I strongly suggest to keep males separately) a heated nightbox will be more beneficial than a hide lined with moss. Some sprinklers, muddy puddles, densely shaded areas (like optimal for boston fern), bushes etc. should provide enough humid microclimates.

Redfoots will, for sure, enjoy fruit - papaya, cherimoya, soursop, mango, figs, dragon fruit and prickly pears and . Some jacaranda leaves and flowers. Good leafy greens are hibiscus, mulberry, mallow, lavatera, moringa. Papaya leaves are fine too. Edible mushrooms should be also safe in moderation. Some animal-based protein once in a week or two would be welcomed.

You can check Kapidolo Farms website for "non-common" tortoise foods. Also, this post lists some plants from Redfoots native habitats: https://tortoiseforum.org/threads/listing-harmful-redfoot-foods.99607/page-2#post-2145627

Generally, tortoises should be fed daily and as much as they can eat. "Shell size" portion is not very precise measurement With correct diet and spacious enclosure there is no risk of overfeeding.

 

[Grateful_TBC]

Hello and welcome!

For general information on redfoots care you can read this post: https://tortoiseforum.org/threads/redfoot-tortoise-care-sheet.175319/

For outdoor enclosures (I strongly suggest to keep males separately) a heated nightbox will be more beneficial than a hide lined with moss. Some sprinklers, muddy puddles, densely shaded areas (like optimal for boston fern), bushes etc. should provide enough humid microclimates.

Redfoots will, for sure, enjoy fruit - papaya, cherimoya, soursop, mango, figs, dragon fruit and prickly pears and . Some jacaranda leaves and flowers. Good leafy greens are hibiscus, mulberry, mallow, lavatera, moringa. Papaya leaves are fine too. Edible mushrooms should be also safe in moderation. Some animal-based protein once in a week or two would be welcomed.

You can check Kapidolo Farms website for "non-common" tortoise foods. Also, this post lists some plants from Redfoots native habitats: https://tortoiseforum.org/threads/listing-harmful-redfoot-foods.99607/page-2#post-2145627

Generally, tortoises should be fed daily and as much as they can eat. "Shell size" portion is not very precise measurement With correct diet and spacious enclosure there is no risk of overfeeding.

Wow! Thank you so much for this detailed reply and the link! This is so perfect! I already have some of those trees on my farm. Also I will make or purchase a heated space for them. We are going into the summer so it won't be below 80's at night until our "winter". Muddy spots are not an issue here hahaha Because of the slope there will be dry and wet spots for them. Thank you again for taking the time out of your day to reply.

 

[Littleredfootbigredheart]

Another thing worth mentioning, they won’t be able to live together as a pair, pair dynamics don’t work for tortoises unfortunately, so you’ll have to spilt their area in two

 

[The_Four_Toed_Edward]

Welcome to the forum!

 

[Grateful_TBC]

Another thing worth mentioning, they won’t be able to live together as a pair, pair dynamics don’t work for tortoises unfortunately, so you’ll have to spilt their area in two

Wow really? I haven't heard this. Is it only for males? They are living together right now in the same area and he didn't mention any issues but now you are definitely getting me to think I should ask more questions.

 

[Grateful_TBC]

Welcome to the forum!

Thank you so much!!

 

[Alex and the Redfoot]

Wow really? I haven't heard this. Is it only for males? They are living together right now in the same area and he didn't mention any issues but now you are definitely getting me to think I should ask more questions.

It's for any kind of pair. Redfoots are more tolerant of each other but still can show aggression sometimes.

The worst is the "silent bullying": sleeping together, following each other, biting the same piece of food etc. Such constant contact is often seen as "friendship" yet it's just the opposite.

Often you can see difference in size between two tortoises housed in pair, sometimes sexual development of bullied tortoise is stalled etc.

 

[Grateful_TBC]

It's for any kind of pair. Redfoots are more tolerant of each other but still can show aggression sometimes.

The worst is the "silent bullying": sleeping together, following each other, biting the same piece of food etc. Such constant contact is often seen as "friendship" yet it's just the opposite.

Often you can see difference in size between two tortoises housed in pair, sometimes sexual development of bullied tortoise is stalled etc.

Thank you very much! I never would normally see these things as negative without this knowledge. These are definitely things I will look out for. I will separate if I see any of these things. I can split the yard and just mirror the amenities.

 

[Littleredfootbigredheart]

Thank you very much! I never would normally see these things as negative without this knowledge. These are definitely things I will look out for. I will separate if I see any of these things. I can split the yard and just mirror the amenities.

I wouldn’t wait to see the signs, there the kind of animal that remain under constant stress in a pair, even if the signs aren’t obvious at first

 

[Anastasia 22]

The worst is the "silent bullying": sleeping together, following each other, biting the same piece of food etc.

Why is "sleeping together" the sign of bullying?

 

[COmtnLady]

Tortoises are solitary animals. When mammals cuddle up to each other they usually are trying to keep warm, but reptiles are endothermic so there is no heat to conserve. "Cuddling" is really oppressing in the tortoise world. The bully squashes the smaller one.

 

[Grateful_TBC]

Why is "sleeping together" the sign of bullying?

Thank you for this comment, I was wondering the same thing. Granted I am still trying to learn as much as I can and my knowledge is quite limited.

 

[Grateful_TBC]

Tortoises are solitary animals. When mammals cuddle up to each other they usually are trying to keep warm, but reptiles are endothermic so there is no heat to conserve. "Cuddling" is really oppressing in the tortoise world. The bully squashes the smaller one.

Thank you, that is interesting as my knowledge of reptiles is limited to this forum, books and other Facebook pages. I would've normally seen this as a positive thing being my comparison would be cats, dogs and pigs which I am learning is completely different. So much to learn! Being that they are the same size (litter?) would you still see it as bullying if they slept next to one another or could it be considered a preferable space to sleep?

 

[Littleredfootbigredheart]

Thank you, that is interesting as my knowledge of reptiles is limited to this forum, books and other Facebook pages. I would've normally seen this as a positive thing being my comparison would be cats, dogs and pigs which I am learning is completely different. So much to learn! Being that they are the same size (litter?) would you still see it as bullying if they slept next to one another or could it be considered a preferable space to sleep?

When it comes to tortoise care, a lot of Facebook pages and other sources are repeating the same outdated stuff, you can’t go wrong using this are your primary source until you can distinguish the good from the bad information, this forum helped me a lot with that.
Being from the same clutch doesn’t have baring on the pair dynamic thing, in fact a lot of the time when they’ve been raised together, you’ll seeing stunting in one of their growth, is one bigger than the other by any chance? As for the sleeping together, I guess it’s a mix of both, one finds the best place to sleep, the other follows, even if they sleep apart, once awake and in each others line of vision, they instantly see competition, with a group there’s multiple competitors, meaning the bullying/territorial behaviours aren’t as intense for each singular tortoise, in a group you'll often see them following one, then get distracted by another walking by and follow them instead, meaning the behaviour doesn’t have chance to escalate into something dangerous, with a pair they’ll keep pursuing each other all day and it’s much more intense

 

[COmtnLady]

And there's the procreational aspect - as with guppies and quite a few other captive-by-humans amphibians, reptiles, and fish - there needs to be a minimum of two females to one male, a more lop-sided ratio is better, or the single female will be "bothered" to death, or at least to injury/infection.

Think of the nature shows you've seen on TV. Usually its sea turtles, but its similar enough with tortoises in that the female lays eggs and leaves. With many species there isn't any nurturing, everyone is on their own. When the clutch hatches there is a mad dash for safety during which a lot get eaten by predators. The very few that make it to adult have succeeded by hiding a lot and being mindful of other animals that might get too near and eat them or use up all the food in the area. Any other critter following is a scary thing. Any other critter looming over them (even you watching from over the top of their chamber until - if - they get used to you feeding them and decide you're not so bad after all) is a scary thing.

They've got an entirely different psychological base.


.

 

[COmtnLady]

Signs of bullying in young tortoises

'Following' is a form of "mad dogging". Cuddling and sleeping in the same area is a form of trying to crowd the other out of the territory. Does one or both sit on the food? That's another one. Outward, obvious hostility like biting, ramming, or flipping seldom happens with juveniles. The...

tortoiseforum.org

Why not to keep 2 tortoises together - a lesson learned the hard way

This is a copy/paste of an article I wrote on my blog last year. I've seen several new keepers ask the question of whether they should get a 'friend' for their tortoise, and so rather than keeping on linking to my blog (which feels kinda self-promoting, which is not my intent), I am creating a...

tortoiseforum.org

 

[Anastasia 22]

Signs of bullying in young tortoises

'Following' is a form of "mad dogging". Cuddling and sleeping in the same area is a form of trying to crowd the other out of the territory. Does one or both sit on the food? That's another one. Outward, obvious hostility like biting, ramming, or flipping seldom happens with juveniles. The...

tortoiseforum.org

Why not to keep 2 tortoises together - a lesson learned the hard way

This is a copy/paste of an article I wrote on my blog last year. I've seen several new keepers ask the question of whether they should get a 'friend' for their tortoise, and so rather than keeping on linking to my blog (which feels kinda self-promoting, which is not my intent), I am creating a...

tortoiseforum.org

I just had a conversation with a breeder, and he said he keeps RF and sulcata together and no issues.....

 

[COmtnLady]

There are breeders who keep them on sand and don't soak them or keep it humid for babies... It works until it doesn't.
A RF needs 84-87% humidity for its whole life, Sulcata can get by with it just for the hatchling phase. If the hatchlings are started too dry or/and too chilly they may survive it, but it affects their internal organs and growth, plus they tend to look ok then suddenly die "for no reason" (and the breeder calls it "Hatchling Failure to thrive" and claims its not his fault the tort died), or the tortoise will have a difficult life health-wise if they do survive.

That's part of the "old" info that so many still take as THE way to raise tortoises. The info here has better results, but most of the people out there will fight it tooth and nail.

 

[Alex and the Redfoot]

I just had a conversation with a breeder, and he said he keeps RF and sulcata together and no issues.....

He either very lucky or posess some secret knowledge.

Some keepers keep them "together" by providing different zones (open grassland and densely planted) and feeding spots in the pen so RFs and sulcatas don't interact much. The next logical step is just to make a fence between zones.