Mating and fighting. Need urgent help!

Shellyandtory

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Hello, this is my first post here and I’m in need of some urgent help. I got a male Russian Tortoise named Shelly (creative, right?) for probably around eight or nine years. After about two years of having Shelly as a pet, I got a second Russian Tortoise, a female, named Tory (also creative!) They have always gotten along and have never had aggression towards each other. They have been living in the same enclosure since I’ve had them and have had zero issues with harming each other. They have mated in the past, and Tory has laid eggs on three different occasions: first time three eggs, second time one egg, third time two eggs. None of these eggs have ever hatched. I cleaned their tank earlier today and replaced all the mulch. Almost immediately afterwards, Shelly attempted to mate with Tory. I let them do their thing and all seemed fine. A few hours later, I noticed Tory was missing scales from her front legs and was bleeding. I watched the two for a few minutes and noticed that Shelly was biting her front legs and trying to mount her. I found this forum and saw that these fights before mating can lead to death of the female so out of caution I separated the two, for the first time since they’ve met. They are currently separated until I figure out what to do. I’ll attach photos of both tortoises and Tory’s injury below. What should I do? Will they be able to be together again? Does something need to be done to care for Tory’s injuries?
Thanks for reading, I urgently need help.
-Justin
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Shelly (Male) in his temporary, separate home.
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Tory (Female)
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Tory’s injuries
 

TechnoCheese

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Keep them separated. Tortoises should never be kept in pairs for this reason. Even if it seems like they get along fine and you don’t see any physical aggression, being together is greatly stressful for them, and they have likely been fighting in ways you haven’t realized. For example, “cuddling”, “following”, sitting face to face, sitting on food, sleeping in the same hide when more are available, and really just being together in general are all one tortoise trying to stress, chase, and push the other out of their territory. In addition, they also mount each other to assert dominance, and mating is greatly stressful for the female, which can easily be over mated when housed with a male. These are solitary animals that only see another tortoise as a mate, a combatant, or both. Not friends.

Be sure to give these a read-
Russian Tortoise Care Sheet https://tortoiseforum.org/index.php?threads/Russian-Tortoise-Care-Sheet.80698/

Beginner Mistakes https://tortoiseforum.org/index.php?threads/Beginner-Mistakes.45180/

Why not to keep 2 tortoises together- a lesson learned the hard way. https://tortoiseforum.org/index.php...gether---a-lesson-learned-the-hard-way.94114/
 
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TechnoCheese

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For Tory’s injuries, keep her on paper towels and keep the wounds clean. Other members will likely be able to give more insight.
 

Shellyandtory

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Thank you for your help. I can’t believe that all this time they haven’t enjoyed each other’s company. All of the actions you mentioned above have taken place and I didn’t know it was to stress each other out. When I purchased Tory from petsmart, I was told they would be fine together. It’s sad to see that I can’t keep them in the same place anymore. I feel bad that I didn’t do my research. I will keep them in separate tanks, but is it a bad idea to keep them next to each other so they can still see each other through the glass? And for Tory’s wounds, how should I keep her on paper towels?
 

Tom

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Sounds like you got all the bad pet store advice... I'm glad you found us and I hope we can help.

There is no "tank" big enough for a Russian tortoise. They need lots of room. At least 4x8'. The ramped water bowl that the pet store sold you is hazardous for our hard shelled tortoises. It should be removed ASAP. Did they also sell you a screw in type cfl bulb for UV? Those are not effective UV sources and sometime they are harmful and can damage tortoise eyes.

All this and more is explained in those links from TechnoCheese. Please feel free to ask all of your questions. We are here to talk tortoises.
 

Shellyandtory

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After reading all of the links above, I feel like the worst pet owner in the world. I was so uneducated and took all my advice from the pet store. The only care I gave the torts was lettuce once a day, day time and night time UV heat lamps, water, and a fresh, clean tank with new repti-bark once a month. I would also bathe them occasionally. I had no idea that they needed so much more. I will take all of this advice into account to make sure they are happy and healthy. I feel like the worst person in the world for putting them through eight or so years of this. Thanks again guys.
 

ascott

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After reading all of the links above, I feel like the worst pet owner in the world. I was so uneducated and took all my advice from the pet store. The only care I gave the torts was lettuce once a day, day time and night time UV heat lamps, water, and a fresh, clean tank with new repti-bark once a month. I would also bathe them occasionally. I had no idea that they needed so much more. I will take all of this advice into account to make sure they are happy and healthy. I feel like the worst person in the world for putting them through eight or so years of this. Thanks again guys.
Nope...stop. You are now enlightened and will be super awesome from this point forward :) Tortoise are happy in a nomadic lifestyle...hell, like some folks. Offer up two nice spaces and let each be the ruler of their world....you will now see each personality flourish. Just use a warm water flush over the injured areas a couple times a day and if all looks like it is healing then keep it up until all good.
 

Tom

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After reading all of the links above, I feel like the worst pet owner in the world. I was so uneducated and took all my advice from the pet store. The only care I gave the torts was lettuce once a day, day time and night time UV heat lamps, water, and a fresh, clean tank with new repti-bark once a month. I would also bathe them occasionally. I had no idea that they needed so much more. I will take all of this advice into account to make sure they are happy and healthy. I feel like the worst person in the world for putting them through eight or so years of this. Thanks again guys.
There is no reason for you to feel this way. You did what you were taught, and what person would assume that the "pet" store knows nothing about the pets they sell? Not your fault, no way you could have known, and you were doing what you were told was the right thing. Even though you were misinformed by the ignorant people at the pet store, you still get an "A" for effort and you've done a great job with the info you had.

Both tortoises are alive and well, and their lives get better from here on out. Its a happy ending for all. :)
 

Sleppo

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Yes don't feel bad a lot of us are still learning as we go. On another note your tortoises beak is overgrown, you'll want to get that under control as it can prohibit them from being able to eat. This forum is full of very valuable knowledge, ask lots of questions everyone is here to help! Good luck!
 

Yvonne G

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More than likely Shelly wasn't sexually mature when you first put the two together. You're lucky you just came away with a bit of bleeding on the legs. I've seen female russians tortoises with their eyelids bitten off. It could have been much worse.
 

Shellyandtory

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You guys have potentially saved their lives. Thank you all again for the advice. I’m going to try to take Tory to a vet, she isn’t herself, not moving, and her wounds are turning white.
 

Cathie G

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After reading all of the links above, I feel like the worst pet owner in the world. I was so uneducated and took all my advice from the pet store. The only care I gave the torts was lettuce once a day, day time and night time UV heat lamps, water, and a fresh, clean tank with new repti-bark once a month. I would also bathe them occasionally. I had no idea that they needed so much more. I will take all of this advice into account to make sure they are happy and healthy. I feel like the worst person in the world for putting them through eight or so years of this. Thanks again guys.
You can't beat yourself up over misinformation because that's all that's out there. Even the employees don't know it's not true. I do have one piece of advice though. Tortoises don't understand they can't walk through the glass. Don't waste your money on bigger aquariums build your own tortoise tables instead. In the meantime, you could use paper or anything to put a sight blinder between the 2 of them and the great outside. It would have to be on the outside of the aquariums and 8 to 10 inches high. You do have time to figure out a plan. I've used furniture from Goodwill like (desktops) to build a contained movable enclosure. Then you would have drawers for supplies for awhile...etc...best wishes
 

TammyJ

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You guys have potentially saved their lives. Thank you all again for the advice. I’m going to try to take Tory to a vet, she isn’t herself, not moving, and her wounds are turning white.
Thanks for trying your best to help them now that you know the problems, or some of them!
Don't just take your tortoise to "any old vet". Try to find a good reptile vet in your area. A lot of vets are not used to treating reptiles and may use your pet as a way to get experience and do the wrong thing and harm your pet. It happens.
Let us see some pics of the injured tortoise (wounds turning white?), as we may be better able to advise you. There are medications you can get to treat the wounds, like silvadene or neosporin. I would also change that substrate as it may be ingested and cause internal problems. Others here with lots more experience with these tortoises will chip in and help for as long as you need it!
All the very best.
 

Tom

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“White” part is circled in red. Is this just scabbing? And will any old Neosporin work?
If this were my tortoise, I'd clean the whole area thoroughly with hydrogen peroxide, and then apply a thin layer of triple antibiotic once or twice a day for a week or two.

Your substrate is good. Its the best one. Fine grade orchid bark.
 

Chubbs the tegu

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Dont feel bad and youve came to the right place. Ive learned so much here and continue learning everyday. Many experienced people here and ive learned to trust theyre advice
 
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