At Wit's End. Please help me save my Leopard

Hi everyone, I need some guidance on my Leopard Tortoise. It seems that my leopard tortoise has respiratory infection. Im told by the supplier that hes 6months old.

I saw him once breathing through his mouth. (Please see the 1st pic) He was sleeping with his mouth open.

When I saw there was bubbles from his nose last week, we asked our vet on what to do and was prescribed Vetracin Gold for 3x a day for 7 days. But my leopard doesnt seem to be getting better.

Im trying to rectify his bedding and make it more moist to achieve the 70% humidity. I have coco peat mixed with reptibark as the bedding and I suspect that it might be the cause of its respiratory infection because it was too dry?

Basking side Temp usually at 29C - 36C
Cool Side Temp usually at 28C - 30C
Night Temp Usually at 27C - 29C

His weight also seems to be fluctuating from 38 grams to 40 grams in just a week. Now he is at 40 grams but he doesnt seem to be gaining weight.

Could respiratory infection be the cause of him losing weight?

What medicine should I be giving?

I read this recently and was wondering if this treatment would be beneficial for my tortoise given his situation or would there be a milder option of medicine that can be provided?



Please please provide guidance on the specific medicine for my leopard tortoise as its really hard to find an exotic vet here in my area that has expert experience in tortoises.

Please enlighten me to save my tortoises life.

Thank you so much!

Hopefully @zovick and @Yvonne G can advice you here.

@Tom , @zovick , @Yvonne G, @turtlesteve


Your baby is ill. It will probably be difficult to raise and keep the temp and humidity it needs to be in, in a regular enclosure, so create a "hospital tank". A large closeable plastic bin or an empty aquarium with a tight lid would be good. The heat needs to be in the 30sC all the time. The humidity should be 90% or higher. all the time. Do NOT have regular substrate in the hospital tank., use paper towels or an old bath towel - but watch closely that your tortoise does NOT eat any of these. Keep a clean terracotta plant saucer or a pie pan inside the hospital tank with water in it (again only as deep as where the top and bottom shell come together) and make sure there is easy access for your tortoise to get into it and out of it.

Soak your tortoise daily in warm water. Morning and evening would be very good, but at least once per day, until your tortoise is healthy again. Do Not allow the water to get below 35C, it should be as deep as the where the top and bottom shell comes together. Because this is so shallow it will try to cool off quickly, so watch closely and try to keep it at 35-36C for a half an hour or a bit longer.



Please show us pictures of your enclosure so we can see exactly what it is like.

Do you have a top that seals well on your enclosure to hold in the heat and humidity? (All species of tortoise need warm and humid conditions for their first two or three years of life. The temps for a healthy "under three years old" tortoise should be 25-33C, for an ill one a bit warmer is needed. And humidity needs to be mid-80s to mid-90s %.)




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I don't see why the Vetracin is prescribed, as it seems to contain both doxycycline and a probiotic. Maybe one of our experts here can clarify this. How is this powder administered?
Probiotics are given to correct the effects of a course of antibiotics and boost the animal's digestive system and appetite.
Apart from the good advice already given, and more to come, you need to visit a good, reputable reptile vet who is familiar with tortoises.

COmtnLady said:

@Tom , @zovick , @Yvonne G, @turtlesteve


Your baby is ill. It will probably be difficult to raise and keep the temp and humidity it needs to be in, in a regular enclosure, so create a "hospital tank". A large closeable plastic bin or an empty aquarium with a tight lid would be good. The heat needs to be in the 30sC all the time. The humidity should be 90% or higher. all the time. Do NOT have regular substrate in the hospital tank., use paper towels or an old bath towel - but watch closely that your tortoise does NOT eat any of these. Keep a clean terracotta plant saucer or a pie pan inside the hospital tank with water in it (again only as deep as where the top and bottom shell come together) and make sure there is easy access for your tortoise to get into it and out of it.

Soak your tortoise daily in warm water. Morning and evening would be very good, but at least once per day, until your tortoise is healthy again. Do Not allow the water to get below 35C, it should be as deep as the where the top and bottom shell comes together. Because this is so shallow it will try to cool off quickly, so watch closely and try to keep it at 35-36C for a half an hour or a bit longer.



Please show us pictures of your enclosure so we can see exactly what it is like.

Do you have a top that seals well on your enclosure to hold in the heat and humidity? (All species of tortoise need warm and humid conditions for their first two or three years of life. The temps for a healthy "under three years old" tortoise should be 25-33C, for an ill one a bit warmer is needed. And humidity needs to be mid-80s to mid-90s %.)




.

Click to expand...

As far as the hospital enclosure goes this might help you: https://tortoiseforum.org/threads/h...-habitat-out-of-a-55gal-sterilite-bin.217138/

Calliope_TortKeeper said:

Hi everyone, I need some guidance on my Leopard Tortoise. It seems that my leopard tortoise has respiratory infection. Im told by the supplier that hes 6months old.

I saw him once breathing through his mouth. (Please see the 1st pic) He was sleeping with his mouth open.

When I saw there was bubbles from his nose last week, we asked our vet on what to do and was prescribed Vetracin Gold for 3x a day for 7 days. But my leopard doesnt seem to be getting better.

Im trying to rectify his bedding and make it more moist to achieve the 70% humidity. I have coco peat mixed with reptibark as the bedding and I suspect that it might be the cause of its respiratory infection because it was too dry?

Basking side Temp usually at 29C - 36C
Cool Side Temp usually at 28C - 30C
Night Temp Usually at 27C - 29C

His weight also seems to be fluctuating from 38 grams to 40 grams in just a week. Now he is at 40 grams but he doesnt seem to be gaining weight.

Could respiratory infection be the cause of him losing weight?

What medicine should I be giving?

I read this recently and was wondering if this treatment would be beneficial for my tortoise given his situation or would there be a milder option of medicine that can be provided?

Respiratory Infection Treatment

I take in rescue tortoises. Unfortunately, Las Vegas has a real issue with backyard breeding and the illegal sale of desert tortoises and sulcatas, so I constantly get tortoises that were improperly cared for and on the verge of death. One of the most common issues I face is respiratory...

tortoiseforum.org

Please please provide guidance on the specific medicine for my leopard tortoise as its really hard to find an exotic vet here in my area that has expert experience in tortoises.

Please enlighten me to save my tortoises life.

Thank you so much!

Click to expand...

Your tortoise doesn't need the oral medication which you pictured. It is extremely difficult to give the tortoise an accurate dose of a medication orally. Injections will give an accurate dose of a medication.

Your tortoise needs to be given injections of ceftazidime. The dose is 20 mg. per kilo and it should be given every other day for severe infections and every three days for a less severe infection. Give 6 doses for severe cases and 5 for less severe cases.

Also your tortoise has an underbite. If it survives, the underbite should be treated as it can most likely be corrected at this stage. If left for a couple of years, it will become more of a problem and make it difficult for the tortoise to eat.

Adding to what has already been said: The thing that catches my attention is that your tortoise is 40 grams at 6 months old. A 6 month old regular leopard should be at least 300-400 grams. This tells me that the tortoise was not started correctly, as is almost always the case. The current RI may simply be a symptom of everything finally failing and shutting down due to a poor start as a hatching, long before you ever saw this tortoise.

Its explained here in more detail:

COmtnLady said:

@Tom , @zovick , @Yvonne G, @turtlesteve


Your baby is ill. It will probably be difficult to raise and keep the temp and humidity it needs to be in, in a regular enclosure, so create a "hospital tank". A large closeable plastic bin or an empty aquarium with a tight lid would be good. The heat needs to be in the 30sC all the time. The humidity should be 90% or higher. all the time. Do NOT have regular substrate in the hospital tank., use paper towels or an old bath towel - but watch closely that your tortoise does NOT eat any of these. Keep a clean terracotta plant saucer or a pie pan inside the hospital tank with water in it (again only as deep as where the top and bottom shell come together) and make sure there is easy access for your tortoise to get into it and out of it.

Soak your tortoise daily in warm water. Morning and evening would be very good, but at least once per day, until your tortoise is healthy again. Do Not allow the water to get below 35C, it should be as deep as the where the top and bottom shell comes together. Because this is so shallow it will try to cool off quickly, so watch closely and try to keep it at 35-36C for a half an hour or a bit longer.



Please show us pictures of your enclosure so we can see exactly what it is like.

Do you have a top that seals well on your enclosure to hold in the heat and humidity? (All species of tortoise need warm and humid conditions for their first two or three years of life. The temps for a healthy "under three years old" tortoise should be 25-33C, for an ill one a bit warmer is needed. And humidity needs to be mid-80s to mid-90s %.)




.

Click to expand...

Hi thank you so much for this. I'm planning to buy a megabox for them. This is the temporary set up that my leopard has while waiting for their customized enclosure to arrive. I do soak him daily too for 10mins as Im having a hard time keeping the water warm for 30mins. Do you have a recommendation to keep the water warm till 30mins. The other vet Ive been to said to have 2 tubs ready and then move the tortoise to the 2nd tub once the water in the 1st tub gets cold. I find it time consuming and assume that its stressful to the tortoise. So im wondering how can this be achieved.

TammyJ said:

I don't see why the Vetracin is prescribed, as it seems to contain both doxycycline and a probiotic. Maybe one of our experts here can clarify this. How is this powder administered?
Probiotics are given to correct the effects of a course of antibiotics and boost the animal's digestive system and appetite.
Apart from the good advice already given, and more to come, you need to visit a good, reputable reptile vet who is familiar with tortoises.

Click to expand...

Hi TammyJ, not too sure about it too. Vetracin was administered orally. I live in far flung area in the Philippines and ive been trying to look for an expert in tortoise too..

The_Four_Toed_Edward said:

As far as the hospital enclosure goes this might help you: https://tortoiseforum.org/threads/h...-habitat-out-of-a-55gal-sterilite-bin.217138/

Click to expand...

Hi @The_Four_Toed_Edward, thanks so much for sending this one. If I may ask and just to confirm, on this link it looks like theres no ventilation for this storage tote. Can the tortoise breathe inside - wont they suffocate? Please educate me as Im just worried about it.

zovick said:

Your tortoise doesn't need the oral medication which you pictured. It is extremely difficult to give the tortoise an accurate dose of a medication orally. Injections will give an accurate dose of a medication.

Your tortoise needs to be given injections of ceftazidime. The dose is 20 mg. per kilo and it should be given every other day for severe infections and every three days for a less severe infection. Give 6 doses for severe cases and 5 for less severe cases.

Also your tortoise has an underbite. If it survives, the underbite should be treated as it can most likely be corrected at this stage. If left for a couple of years, it will become more of a problem and make it difficult for the tortoise to eat.

Click to expand...

Hi @zovick, super thankful for your guidance. This is the 1st time that Ive heard of this medicine so I want to make sure that I get it right, would you be so kind to send a pic of this specific medicine? As its difficult to find medicine for tortoises here as mostly the ones in the vet stores are for chickens, dogs and cats.

Our vet also prescribed 0.1ml Bacterid injection for the leopard and injected through the shoulder.

Though, I have my apprehensions injecting my leopard because hes too small. Where is the best site for injection on this small torroise? So he wont feel to much pain and wont be difficult for me to inject.

Basing it off on the current situation, Im thinking that my leopard tortoise isnt severe just yet because hes still eating, drinking water and the past couple of days i havent seen him with his mouth open. So if I understand correctly, I have to inject 5 doses and each dose should have an interval of 3 days. Is this 0.1ml since hes so tiny and just 40grams?

Tom said:

Adding to what has already been said: The thing that catches my attention is that your tortoise is 40 grams at 6 months old. A 6 month old regular leopard should be at least 300-400 grams. This tells me that the tortoise was not started correctly, as is almost always the case. The current RI may simply be a symptom of everything finally failing and shutting down due to a poor start as a hatching, long before you ever saw this tortoise.

Its explained here in more detail:

"Hatchling Failure Syndrome"

I've heard this term for many years and I don't like it. Its a way to excuse our ignorance and failure. I will agree that an occasional hatchling is born that is just not going to make it no matter what anybody does, but MOST of them, if they make it full term and hatch, SHOULD survive and...

tortoiseforum.org

Click to expand...

Hi @Tom, thank you for the additional information. It is a terrible sad thing to witness.

Before the leopard tortoise was shipped it looked right about the same size that we have right now, could it be that the supplier just didnt disclose the right age and maybe this leopard tortoise is actually just 2-3months old? Just trying to ascertain the correct age to ensure its growing properly.

Calliope_TortKeeper said:

Hi @The_Four_Toed_Edward, thanks so much for sending this one. If I may ask and just to confirm, on this link it looks like theres no ventilation for this storage tote. Can the tortoise breathe inside - wont they suffocate? Please educate me as Im just worried about it.

Click to expand...

You can see in the photos, that there are gaps where the plastic has been cut to make a door flap, it will provide enough ventilation for a tortoise. They don't need as much oxygen as mammals.

Calliope_TortKeeper said:

Hi @zovick, super thankful for your guidance. This is the 1st time that Ive heard of this medicine so I want to make sure that I get it right, would you be so kind to send a pic of this specific medicine? As its difficult to find medicine for tortoises here as mostly the ones in the vet stores are for chickens, dogs and cats.

Our vet also prescribed 0.1ml Bacterid injection for the leopard and injected through the shoulder.

Though, I have my apprehensions injecting my leopard because hes too small. Where is the best site for injection on this small torroise? So he wont feel to much pain and wont be difficult for me to inject.

Basing it off on the current situation, Im thinking that my leopard tortoise isnt severe just yet because hes still eating, drinking water and the past couple of days i havent seen him with his mouth open. So if I understand correctly, I have to inject 5 doses and each dose should have an interval of 3 days. Is this 0.1ml since hes so tiny and just 40grams?

Click to expand...

That medication is commonly known as Baytril and is an outdated treatment. It causes pain and tissue damage at the injection site.

If that is all you can get, though, you can use it. The dose for a small tortoise like yours would be 5 to 10 mg/kg. Your tortoise is only 4% of a kilo so you would give .2 to .4 mg of the medication. At 100 mg per cc, this means you would inject .05 to .1 cc. You can do this with a 1 cc tuberculin syringe.

Note also that Baytril is given daily, so you should do 10 doses rather than 5. The injection site shown in your photo is fine. Alternate sides from one day to the next when giving the injections to minimize the trauma to the injection sites.

Calliope_TortKeeper said:

Hi thank you so much for this. I'm planning to buy a megabox for them. This is the temporary set up that my leopard has while waiting for their customized enclosure to arrive. I do soak him daily too for 10mins as Im having a hard time keeping the water warm for 30mins. Do you have a recommendation to keep the water warm till 30mins. The other vet Ive been to said to have 2 tubs ready and then move the tortoise to the 2nd tub once the water in the 1st tub gets cold. I find it time consuming and assume that its stressful to the tortoise. So im wondering how can this be achieved.

Click to expand...

Tortoises do everything slowly. A ten minute soak isn't a soak - its just a "get wet". A major point of soaking is to keep your tortoise hydrated, but there are other reasons, too. Most will defecate in the water if they are in it long enough (which is a good thing, you know the tortoise is healthy and can keep track of what and how much its eating and other aspects of metabolic things like the consistency and so forth). Some tortoises also get a lot of exercise by trying to climb the walls, which is another added benefit. With young ones it is even more important that they are kept well hydrated. There is almost no such thing as too much soaking, just be sure to keep the water warm enough.

The two tub method of soaking works really well. You get the first container set up with 95F/35C or a degree warmer, with the water only as deep as where the top and bottom shells come together. Because it is so shallow it will cool down very quickly. It is VERY important that you keep the water warm the entire time your tortoise is in it, so watch it very closely. Reptiles can't regulate their temperatures and water transfers the heat or cold faster than you might think. Your tortoise needs to be warm or it can't process its food correctly, and will be more prone to have respiratory illnesses or other lack of thriving problems. Then, while your tort is in tub 1, you get tub 2 ready, and rotate them. In a very few times you will have it down to a system and it will become easy. If your tortoise is stressing when you change containers hold your hand under it in a way that it doesn't "see" the surroundings.

I soak mine in a sink with running water. As the water cools off, I just pull the plug, then replace the water with warmer. If you decide to try this way, make sure you don't run too hot or too cold of water anywhere near the tortoise.


All species of tortoises need a warm humid environment for the first two to three years of life. It should never drop below 85F/29C temps, nor below 85% or higher humidity. The first few years of life can establish a healthy animal or one that has a lower quality for the rest of its long life. It is well worth the effort to give it a strong healthy start.



How many tortoises do you have? In the first sentence in the above paragraph you say "they", which indicates plural. How many are you keeping together?






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zovick said:

That medication is commonly known as Baytril and is an outdated treatment. It causes pain and tissue damage at the injection site.

If that is all you can get, though, you can use it. The dose for a small tortoise like yours would be 5 to 10 mg/kg. Your tortoise is only 4% of a kilo so you would give .2 to .4 mg of the medication. At 100 mg per cc, this means you would inject .05 to .1 cc. You can do this with a 1 cc tuberculin syringe.

Note also that Baytril is given daily, so you should do 10 doses rather than 5. The injection site shown in your photo is fine. Alternate sides from one day to the next when giving the injections to minimize the trauma to the injection sites.

Click to expand...

Hi @zovick, is this the Ceftadizime for tortoise? We have this in our local drug store. But was wondering if the dosage is too high since this medicine is for humans. Or should this be diluted?

Calliope_TortKeeper said:

Hi @zovick, is this the Ceftadizime for tortoise? We have this in our local drug store. But was wondering if the dosage is too high since this medicine is for humans. Or should this be diluted?

Click to expand...

That looks like the right stuff. Is it a powder or a liquid in the vial? In the US, it is a powder which should be activated by adding 10 cc of sterile diluent. Assuming that the vial has 10 cc of liquid in it, each cc will contain 100 mg of the ceftazidime and .1 cc will contain 10 mg. and .01 cc will contain 1 mg.

Dose of ceftazidime for tortoises is 20 mg per kilo. Your tortoise is 4% of a kilo, so its dose would be .8 mg

This means you would need to give roughly .01 cc per dose which may be hard to do, even with a tuberculin syringe.

If you are unable to use injectable antibiotics, you could consider using a nebulizer but you would need the appropriate antibiotic made up in the right solution, basically the tort goes in a plastic box and you do sessions with the tort breathing in the nebulized antibiotic