Questions About Tort Enclosure Details - Feel Free To Share Pics :-)

Luckie Turtle Man said:

Hi all!

I'm newer to tortoise care, and I'm researching building my own 96"x48"30" enclosure, and I'm looking for help with some finer details I'm unsure of.

Please know that I'm aware of the fine enclosures built and sold by member Mark, the Smart Tortoise Enclosure, but I like to DIY, and I'm a glutton for punishment, so I hope to build my own

The target species is highly likely to be a Burmese Star, Geochelone platynota, from member Tom.

I am hoping to learn things such as:

For doors on an enclosure this large, I assume that sliding glass doors would work best rather than hinged doors that swing out, yes? For my size enclosure, I would treat it like two connected 4'x4' units, and each unit would have basically two 24" wide doors.

For background heat I'd like to use radiant heat panels, though I want to ask if there's anything wrong with regular ceramic heat emitters? is there a reason RHP are favored?

How many heat panels would I need for a 4'x8' enclosure, and where would you hang them? I'm tempted to think one panel roughly centered over each of the 4'x4' units. These, of course, would be thermostat protected and in addition to the basking light, Arcadia 12% UVB, and ambient LED lighting.

How do you guys handle ventilation and humidity control? On the one hand, I'm thinking about some vents with sliding covers where I can manually slide them more open or closed to manage humidity. On the other hand, I'm hoping to build a Raspberry Pi based controller to handle temp and lights, and it's at least possible to setup the Raspberry Pi to monitor and react to humidity. I am wondering if anyone has any kind of 'smart' humidity monitor that could ramp exhaust fans up or down with humidity?

Where do you place temp and humidity probes in your systems? I've kept reptiles and I understand a temperature gradient, but not sure the best places to place temp probes in such a large enclosure.

Any tips, tricks or suggestions for a DIY 8'x4'x2.5' would be very, very helpful!

Please!! If anyone can post pics of their 8'x4' indoor enclosure and how you have it set up, I would really, really appreciate it!

Thank you!

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Alice Sulcatia said:

Welcome to the forum, and congrats on preparing for your future turtle!

"Glutton for punishment" got me rolling! Interesting, what are you punished for? Anyhow, prep is part of the victory! Have you had a chance to read through Tom's night box article? https://tortoiseforum.org/threads/single-tortoise-night-box.181515/

Hopefully, some builders will hop on this thread soon. Good luck!

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Alice Sulcatia said:

Have you had a chance to read through Tom's night box article? https://tortoiseforum.org/threads/single-tortoise-night-box.181515/

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Luckie Turtle Man said:

Bump!

If anyone has any tips, tricks or suggestions on how to design my indoor 4x8 enclosure I'd be very grateful for your help

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Alex and the Redfoot said:

I'll try to answer some questions and if I miss something - feel free to ask again ))

> sliding glass doors would work best rather than hinged doors that swing out, yes?

A double-glazed door is the best (I'll be referencing Marks enclosures often and, yes, Mark makes double-glazed doors). Can be hinged or sliding. Otherwise, condesate will be constantly building up on the glass and drip down (ruining the view and leaving stains). This makes sliding doors a worse choice as you need to invent a drainage system for railings.

> For background heat I'd like to use radiant heat panels, though I want to ask if there's anything wrong with regular ceramic heat emitters? is there a reason RHP are favored?

Nothing is wrong, really. However, CHE are non-directed sources of heat and you need a wide reflector dome if you want to efficiently heat up large space at 30" distance. They also have higher running temperature, which makes them less optimal for plastic enclosures (plasticity of PVC increases with temperatures). RHPs provide mild ambient heat dissipated over large area and look better

Placement of RHPs sound right.

I don't use any humidity controls (passive ventilation works for me). Yet, there are options like hygrostats, off-the-shelf smart sockets + sensors + automation gateways or custom solutions like the one you plan to implement.

I, usually, have two-three temperature/humidity sensors (but number depends on how many "climate zones" you make). Usually one smart sensor goes in the middle, a few inches above substrate (so I get median historical humidity/temp data). A thermostat probe goes to the cold end (a thermostat has a display + Hi/Lo temperature alarms). A third sensor is somewhere nearby of the basking area (just a simple digital display for a quick glance). An automation gateway is programmed to switch off all lights and thermostat sockets if smart sensor readings go through the roof (a sort of a kill switch, but not 100% reliable)

A few tips:
1. Line the bottom. Even if it's properly sealed, this will give you extra warranty.

2. You will need quite a few support beams for ceiling and bottom. PVC is not 100% rigid and humidity and heat make things worse.

3. 4' deep enclosures are hard to clean - plan in advance how to clean things near back wall, where to place water dish so you can replace it easily.

4. You can add some ramps or walk-through galleries, platforms, tunnels made of PVC while you're at.

5. I think, a good base with castors is also a must have (8x4 enclosure with all substrate and decor is basically an immovable property).

6. Plant shelves or pot hanging spots can be planned in advance (you don't want any plant to touch UVB or basking light)

I attach a few photos of a current 6x3 setup for my Redfoot (she spends a lot of time outside, just in case).

1. Cold end - two hides: terracotta pot half right under RHP, a huge piece of palm "bark" under fern is a "cold-cold" hide.

2. A placeholder for the water dish - far enough from walking routes (perimeter). I put terracotta saucer on top of the plastic one so substrate doesn't stick

3. Warm end - cork bark bunker and slate near the basking lamp.

4. RHP - I use two long and narrow, span whole enclosure, closer to the front windows. Jungle Dawn LED bars span 3/4 of enclosure length in the middle.

5. "Basking area": Arcadia ProT5 UVB 39W, Desert 12%, 100W basking bulb and a JungleDawn LED. Below is a round dark slate. Fern under the UVB lamp doesn't feel good (they need more shade).

6. There is a chicken wire sheet attached to the backwall: I use it to attach plant wall pockets and fern fronds and pothos vines happily climb over it (hopefully, kudzu will do too).

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Alice Sulcatia said:

@Alex and the Redfoot could you give some advice?

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Alex and the Redfoot said:

These threads can be also of interest (same tortoise in the same enclosure, but one thread is more technical and the other is more a showcase):

Olive the Aldabra

I've already posted about Olive in several threads. Her little sploots always bring a smile to my face. She's quite photogenic (IMHO).

tortoiseforum.org

8*4 enclosure lighting

We're in the process of buying lights for my new Aldabra enclosure. Arcadia LumenIZE is a good (though expensive) product line; I wish it had been available for my Boxie's stock tank (JUN 2023). Little Aldabra's enclosure will be slightly larger (96" x 48" x 48") and require more lighting...

tortoiseforum.org

This is the infamous thread with a simple PVC enclosure build:

Building your own Expanded PVC Enclosed Chamber – For Beginners

I have recently been asked to do a post on building an enclosed chamber using PVC, and to tailor the post to those that have NO fabrication / wood working experience and the resultant lack of tools. So, that’s what this post is about. If you have even basic wood working or metal working skills...

tortoiseforum.org

The design is very simple and can be improved, but is a good starting point

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Luckie Turtle Man said:

@Alex and the Redfoot thank you again for your detailed reply!

Your setup is fantastic, thank you for sharing!

I'd do unspeakable things to see other member's examples

Here's where I am right now; see what you think please

I hear you about the front to back space at four feet may be problematic for maintenece; I had thought I'd just have to get in there

Everyone keeps telling me 3x8 in the minimum floor plan, yet I'm aware that Mark builds the Smart Enclosures at 3'x8'. I am in Upstate New York, so our tort(s) wold necessarily need to be inside almost half the year. My wife is pushing for one tortoise (and she usually wins!), and I am leaning toward three. I'd like en enclosure large enough for three Burmese Stars, and Tom has indicated separately that 4x8 should be good for a trio. I don't think I should go smaller.

With that, I think I'm going to go 4'x8'x2.5'. A white interior as suggested by Mark, and PVC as strongly suggested by Tom.

I am planing on 3" thick Reptibark substrate, and a front "dam" 6" high. I'd like the same at the top; Mark has advised this.

I WOULD like to use some kind of double paned doors, and I think I favor swing out doors, and I *think* I can make that work

What RHP are best? Could someone take a shot at what wattage I should be looking at? Yes, I know no one can say for sure and I need a temp probe, but for a 4x8x2.5 enclosure, slightly cooler than average living space, low of maybe 66 in the dead of winter.

For a setup like this, if I put a probe in the coldest corner of the enclosure (I'd like to put the basking spot in the back left; 'coldest' spot front right). If I set my thermostat to come on if this probe hits say 82F (a near minimum overall temp), should that turn on both RHP's, or should each panel have a thermostat and it's own temp probe?

How many water dishes do I need? Going terracotta saucer for sure; I like the tip of putting them on the plastic saucer

Thank you very much for your help!

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Markw84 said:

@Luckie Turtle Man

Have you read this thread? I think it is the most straight-forward approach on how to build a PVC enclosure for someone who is intent on doing it themself...

Building your own Expanded PVC Enclosed Chamber – For Beginners

I have recently been asked to do a post on building an enclosed chamber using PVC, and to tailor the post to those that have NO fabrication / wood working experience and the resultant lack of tools. So, that’s what this post is about. If you have even basic wood working or metal working skills...

tortoiseforum.org

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Alex and the Redfoot said:

1. If you build bigger area - don't hesitate and do it. Actually, to section a part of the room can be simplier than build a small box (you can use the walls to support construction load and build a double-wall+insulation enclosure using cheaper 1/4" ePVC, for example). And such setup can be made a "walk-in".

2. I like to have more than 3" of substrate (live plants and all, but mostly because you can do some landscape design - hills, valleys, caves etc.). So I would plan for more than 6" dam. The choice is yours, of course.

3. As of RHPs, the most common are Vivarium Electronics. Yet, chicken coop heat panels from Tractor Supply work surprisingly well and cost less. Depending on enclosure insulation you will need something between 200W and 300W (gives some reserve power). Two low wattage RHPs are usually better than one (better heat spread), but depends on overall heating/lightning layout.

4. I have Inkbird ITC-2T thermostat with day/night settings and two "heating" sockets. Both RHPs are on the same thermostat. When you use separate thermostats you can achieve more precise temperature control in different zones, yet you'll have to tinker with probe placement and settings a bit, especially near the heat lamp.

5. For one tortoise it's usually one dish. However, I've seen a setup with two dishes, one being under dedicated basking lamp and the tortoise's been using it actively for self-soaking.

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Luckie Turtle Man said:

Thank you for your help, I really appreciate it!

I think bigger is better, and if there's something I can't reach in the back of the enclosure, I'll send my wife in after it

Hmmm, I was hoping a 6" dam top and bottom would do it, but I do want them to have enough substrate. How tall of a bottom front dam do you suggest?

I will check out those RHP, and I use InkBird controllers on my aquariums, so I am familiar with their thermostats.

Thank you again for your help!!

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