7 month old hermann

[Natalie44]

Hello everyone,

At the end of the month we’ll be picking up a 7 month old hermann tortoise from a breeder. The breeder has said to mix top soil with cocoa fibre for substrate. Should I take the advice on board? Or should I stick with the fine orchid fir bark which I’ve already purchased?
Natalie x

 

[Alex and the Redfoot]

Hello everyone,

At the end of the month we’ll be picking up a 7 month old hermann tortoise from a breeder. The breeder has said to mix top soil with cocoa fibre for substrate. Should I take the advice on board? Or should I stick with the fine orchid fir bark which I’ve already purchased?
Natalie x

Hello!
Stick to orchid bark. It's definitely a good choice.

Did he explain why soil with cocoa fiber is better? And why not to use coco coir (coco peat) which has pretty much the same texture?

 

[The_Four_Toed_Edward]

Hello!
Stick to orchid bark. It's definitely a good choice.

Did he explain why soil with cocoa fiber is better? And why not to use coco coir (coco peat) which has pretty much the same texture?

Coco fiber, coco coir and coco peat are all sold under the nae coco fiber at least here in Finland, even though there is a clear difference. I wonder if the names have been used interchangeably by the breeder since I see no reason using coco fiber...

Plus, most top soils have harmful ingredients in them, so there is no reason to use them either. The cons simply over-weigh the pros.

 

[Natalie44]

Hello!
Stick to orchid bark. It's definitely a good choice.

Did he explain why soil with cocoa fiber is better? And why not to use coco coir (coco peat) which has pretty much the same texture?

Yea I thought it was a good choice, but then he said to get top soil which confused me a little. I’ll just stick with what I’ve got. He didn’t say why it’s better 🤷🏻‍♀️

 

[Alex and the Redfoot]

Many keepers use top soil (either plain or mixed with something else - e.g. moss for redfoots, sand or coco coir for Testudo species).

There are a few reasons to do that:
1. It's closer to natural habitat (which is not true sometimes and small enclosures with artificial light are anyway not the wilderness with rains, specific soil mineral content and density and so on).
2. It encourages burrowing and self-regulating temperatures and humidity. However, hatchlings usually burrow in fine grade bark just fine with the same benefits.
3. Some tell that bark is like "heavy logs" for hatchlings. Not really true.

Soil has its drawbacks and risks and amendments like sand, limestone and moss have their own as well. Generally, it's much safer and easier to use fir bark, cypress mulch or coco coir. Unless you are seriously into "bio-active enclosures" with live plants, invertebrates and natural growth/decay lifecycle.

 

[Natalie44]

Many keepers use top soil (either plain or mixed with something else - e.g. moss for redfoots, sand or coco coir for Testudo species).

There are a few reasons to do that:
1. It's closer to natural habitat (which is not true sometimes and small enclosures with artificial light are anyway not the wilderness with rains, specific soil mineral content and density and so on).
2. It encourages burrowing and self-regulating temperatures and humidity. However, hatchlings usually burrow in fine grade bark just fine with the same benefits.
3. Some tell that bark is like "heavy logs" for hatchlings. Not really true.

Soil has its drawbacks and risks and amendments like sand, limestone and moss have their own as well. Generally, it's much safer and easier to use fir bark, cypress mulch or coco coir. Unless you are seriously into "bio-active enclosures" with live plants, invertebrates and natural growth/decay lifecycle.

Hey!
Thank you for all the useful information I’m just gonna go with the fir bark. It cost £30 online..so im
Not about to waste it! Also, do I absolutely need a CHE? The temp around the house is about 22 degrees at the moment. Plus once I have the green house topper it’ll be even warmer won’t it? I don’t mind buying one…I just don’t want him to get too warm in there?
Natalie x

 

[Alex and the Redfoot]

I will absolutely need this when temperatures get lower. Right now - get it with a thermostat, set to 24C and forget about it )) Thermostat will keep things under control and CHE turned off when temperatures are in line.

What you do not want, for sure, is to get up at night and check if your baby tortoise is not freezing

 

[Tom]

Hello everyone,

At the end of the month we’ll be picking up a 7 month old hermann tortoise from a breeder. The breeder has said to mix top soil with cocoa fibre for substrate. Should I take the advice on board? Or should I stick with the fine orchid fir bark which I’ve already purchased?
Natalie x

Soil should never be used for tortoise substrate. It is made from composted yard waste and there is no way to know what is in it.

They also add in all sorts of other weird ingredients to make a favorable texture for plants to grow in.

They also usually add in fertilizers, perlite and other potentially deadly things.

Finally, we frequently find foreign objects, screws, nails, bits of metal, broken glass, or plastic in those bags.

Soil is fine to use in planters or pots for growing tortoise food, but not fine for a tortoise to be living on/in in a closed chamber. This is one of those things that many people are still doing the old wrong way. Many people here still do it too.

Hand packed damp coco coir is best for baby Testudo, and fine grade orchid bark is best for them once they reach about 3-4 inches.

 

[Littleredfootbigredheart]

Soil should never be used for tortoise substrate. It is made from composted yard waste and there is no way to know what is in it.

They also add in all sorts of other weird ingredients to make a favorable texture for plants to grow in.

They also usually add in fertilizers, perlite and other potentially deadly things.

Finally, we frequently find foreign objects, screws, nails, bits of metal, broken glass, or plastic in those bags.

Soil is fine to use in planters or pots for growing tortoise food, but not fine for a tortoise to be living on/in in a closed chamber. This is one of those things that many people are still doing the old wrong way. Many people here still do it too.

Hand packed damp coco coir is best for baby Testudo, and fine grade orchid bark is best for them once they reach about 3-4 inches.

She’s gone for orchid bark for now because the coir she first laid started giving off a chemical smell which was odd, but better safe🙂perhaps come first deep clean time she use a mix of both, firmly packed damp coir, with some orchid bark on top😊

 

[Natalie44]

Soil should never be used for tortoise substrate. It is made from composted yard waste and there is no way to know what is in it.

They also add in all sorts of other weird ingredients to make a favorable texture for plants to grow in.

They also usually add in fertilizers, perlite and other potentially deadly things.

Finally, we frequently find foreign objects, screws, nails, bits of metal, broken glass, or plastic in those bags.

Soil is fine to use in planters or pots for growing tortoise food, but not fine for a tortoise to be living on/in in a closed chamber. This is one of those things that many people are still doing the old wrong way. Many people here still do it too.

Hand packed damp coco coir is best for baby Testudo, and fine grade orchid bark is best for them once they reach about 3-4 inches.

So the fine grade orchid bark isn’t suitable for my baby Herman? I’ve spent so much on substrates already…I don’t want to spend anymore 😅😅

 

[Alex and the Redfoot]

So the fine grade orchid bark isn’t suitable for my baby Herman? I’ve spent so much on substrates already…I don’t want to spend anymore 😅😅

You can use bark, don't worry. For adult tortoises bark is preferred because they don't make too much out of it like with coir. For babies coir is somewhat easier to handle, but bark is fine too (they still can move around and burrow if they want to).

 

[Littleredfootbigredheart]

So the fine grade orchid bark isn’t suitable for my baby Herman? I’ve spent so much on substrates already…I don’t want to spend anymore 😅😅

The orchid bark will be fine don’t worry😊

 

[TammyJ]

So the fine grade orchid bark isn’t suitable for my baby Herman? I’ve spent so much on substrates already…I don’t want to spend anymore 😅😅

Please re-read Tom's last paragraph.

 

[Tom]

So the fine grade orchid bark isn’t suitable for my baby Herman? I’ve spent so much on substrates already…I don’t want to spend anymore 😅😅

What size is the tortoise? Testudo are small species and their babies hatch out tiny. How much growth has there been in 7 months? This can vary tremendously and for a wide variety of reasons. A well hydrated properly fed and housed baby should easily reach 100 grams in 7 months. If it is that size or larger, then the orchid bark will be not just suitable, but preferred.

If your baby is the typical underfed, dry-housed, slow growing baby that we so often see, then it might have trouble traversing the larger orchid bark pieces.

I use orchid bark to start hatchling Burmese stars right out of the brooder box at about 25 grams, and it works for them. I prefer coco coir for hatchling Testudo and Gopherus species because it allows them to burrow in and make their little micro climates that they are so fond of.

I'm reluctant to just tell you "do this". I want you to understand WHY to do this thing or that thing. I want you to understand what it is you are trying to achieve with your new tortoises environment, offer suggestions with an explanation, and let you run with the info. Every enclosure is a custom job and will need fine-tuning and adjustment to get things just right. I want you to have the "tools" to recognize what parameters are off, and what would be the best way to adjust things. We will all be here to help you and answer questions, but my hope is that you will learn what to do along the way as well.

 

[Natalie44]

What size is the tortoise? Testudo are small species and their babies hatch out tiny. How much growth has there been in 7 months? This can vary tremendously and for a wide variety of reasons. A well hydrated properly fed and housed baby should easily reach 100 grams in 7 months. If it is that size or larger, then the orchid bark will be not just suitable, but preferred.

If your baby is the typical underfed, dry-housed, slow growing baby that we so often see, then it might have trouble traversing the larger orchid bark pieces.

I use orchid bark to start hatchling Burmese stars right out of the brooder box at about 25 grams, and it works for them. I prefer coco coir for hatchling Testudo and Gopherus species because it allows them to burrow in and make their little micro climates that they are so fond of.

I'm reluctant to just tell you "do this". I want you to understand WHY to do this thing or that thing. I want you to understand what it is you are trying to achieve with your new tortoises environment, offer suggestions with an explanation, and let you run with the info. Every enclosure is a custom job and will need fine-tuning and adjustment to get things just right. I want you to have the "tools" to recognize what parameters are off, and what would be the best way to adjust things. We will all be here to help you and answer questions, but my hope is that you will learn what to do along the way as well.

What size is the tortoise? Testudo are small species and their babies hatch out tiny. How much growth has there been in 7 months? This can vary tremendously and for a wide variety of reasons. A well hydrated properly fed and housed baby should easily reach 100 grams in 7 months. If it is that size or larger, then the orchid bark will be not just suitable, but preferred.

If your baby is the typical underfed, dry-housed, slow growing baby that we so often see, then it might have trouble traversing the larger orchid bark pieces.

I use orchid bark to start hatchling Burmese stars right out of the brooder box at about 25 grams, and it works for them. I prefer coco coir for hatchling Testudo and Gopherus species because it allows them to burrow in and make their little micro climates that they are so fond of.

I'm reluctant to just tell you "do this". I want you to understand WHY to do this thing or that thing. I want you to understand what it is you are trying to achieve with your new tortoises environment, offer suggestions with an explanation, and let you run with the info. Every enclosure is a custom job and will need fine-tuning and adjustment to get things just right. I want you to have the "tools" to recognize what parameters are off, and what would be the best way to adjust things. We will all be here to help you and answer questions, but my hope is that you will learn what to do along the way as well.

This is the baby hermann I’m picking up next week. I don’t know how what size it is. Just that it’s 7 months old.

 

[Natalie44]

This is the baby hermann I’m picking up next week. I don’t know how what size it is. Just that it’s 7 months old.

Tell a lie, here’s the measurements-

 

[Natalie44]

The orchid bark will be fine don’t worry😊

Okay good because I’ve spent so much on different substrates lol and abit of a paingetting it all out again 😅 I just went to a local reptile shop to have a little look around, and I came across a small brick of coir….i thought I could at least put some in one of his hides, and the lady working there said it’s not suitable for tortoises as it could give them respiratory issues. She said to listen to her as she’s got several years experience. Man……so many different information out there! Who do you believe 🤷🏻‍♀️

 

[Alex and the Redfoot]

Okay good because I’ve spent so much on different substrates lol and abit of a paingetting it all out again 😅 I just went to a local reptile shop to have a little look around, and I came across a small brick of coir….i thought I could at least put some in one of his hides, and the lady working there said it’s not suitable for tortoises as it could give them respiratory issues. She said to listen to her as she’s got several years experience. Man……so many different information out there! Who do you believe 🤷🏻‍♀️

She told you an old tale of "keep tortoise dry or it will get RI" with a variation "keep coco coir dry and dust will give your animal RI". Damp, hand packed coco coir is not dusty and humid and warm enclosure is fine (too cold and damp environment is a sure recipe for respiratory infection).

 

[Tom]

Okay good because I’ve spent so much on different substrates lol and abit of a paingetting it all out again 😅 I just went to a local reptile shop to have a little look around, and I came across a small brick of coir….i thought I could at least put some in one of his hides, and the lady working there said it’s not suitable for tortoises as it could give them respiratory issues. She said to listen to her as she’s got several years experience. Man……so many different information out there! Who do you believe 🤷🏻‍♀️

The orchid bark will be good for a 70mm tortoise. Coco coir is good too.

Alex explained the pet shop's misinformation perfectly.

I've started literally 100's of hatchings on coco coir. If it did what the pet shop lady says, I would have seen. problem somewhere along the way. This is what I mean when I talk about asking questions. When you get conflicting info, please feel free to ask us. This is how people learn. We learn too.