Advice on tort table

[Angi]

I have a couple questions about turning a book case into a tortoise table.
I got the idea here.
1. Will I need more than one heat lamp ( it will be in the house) or will they go to the warm side if they get cold? They are used to a much smaller space
2. I think it was Maggie that suggested using a shower curtain liner to line the book case. I metioned this to my Mom and she thought they might be made out of something toxic because of the smell. Thoughts??? Do I buy a spectial type?
3. I am going to need a lot of substrate and I don't want the worms that apeared in Tilly's cage. That post freaked me out. Is stuff like forrest floor sterile.
I am excited about this project.

 

[tortoisenerd]

Amount of heat depends on the table size. You want to maintain the temperature gradient ideal for the species. If there isn't enough heat to cover all parts of the table, the exposed part will be room temperature, which may or may not be warm enough. Yes they thermoregulate, but no use having a large table and having part of it too cold for them to even think of using. If you use a Mercury Vapor Bulb for example, you put that in, and then if the rest of the table has spots that are too cold, add a ceramic heat emitter (it can be the one you keep on 24/7 if you need night heat). I use only a MVB in summer when the house temp is warm enough to be the low end of the gradient, and in the cooler months I have a MVB on one side and a CHE on the other side which I keep on 24/7.

Rectangular is better than square as far as tables go, as for whatever reason torts seem to not like square as much.

Any heavy duty shower curtain, pond liner, or shower pan liner (like used in construction of bathrooms) is great if you are using a moist substrate (I have dry substrate so I took mine out, but most tort species need moist substrate). The smell is the plastic. Let it air out and it is fine. I wouldn't put it in there straight from the package and then pour the substrate in. Same with you would let any sealant you use air dry--I did that for about 4 days with the polyurethane I used to seal with wood. With a bookcase though, it is already finished, unlike the boards I used.

What type of substrate did you use that had worms? What are you thinking of using this time? Since you say you need a lot, keep in mind the price and the ease of buying it. I buy shredded aspen in 45 lb bags, and I don't ever do a complete change out--only the very top layer, and anywhere that my tort burrows, so I don't use as much as I thought I would. Look for substrates that list all ingredients. You don't want pine or cedar. Stuff made from cypress is good. Substrates for reptiles that come in bags should be completely clean, but beware as even though they market the stuff for reptiles, a lot are made from toxic materials, or are bad choices. Coconut coir, cypress mulch, and orchid bark are all good choices. Organic potting soil type of substrates might have living stuff in it, but are good choices as well. You can always put substrate on a tray and bake it in the oven to kill off anything if you are worried.

Make sure any tort table you make is deep enough for substrate plus enough height so that the tort climbing on its hind legs on top of any cage furnishings against the wall still can't get out. Taller is better if you aren't sure. Tort tables are usually large enough there will be enough air circulation. I have 18 inch walls for example so I have a lot of height to work with for safety--I have substrate about 8 inches deep for my 4 inch tort.

Feel free to post any additional questions, and good luck! It would help if you tell us what tort species, what size/age, what the old table size is, and what new table size you plan on.

 

[Angi]

Wow you bring up some things I had not thought about. I did not think about it not being deep enough. I will post measurments tomorrow. The book case is in my sons room and he is sleeping, so I don't want to go in there right now.
They are CDTs and they are about 9 months old. Their current enclosure is 2X2. I did not know anything about Tortoises when I got them and just bought everything the gal at LLL told me I needed. At the time I was not even sure if I was going to keep them. They were given to me and I really didn't want them, but now love them dearly.
The worms were in another TFO members tort enclosure, but the whole idea freaked me out even thought she lives on the other side of the country. I painted the bookshelf about a year ago with primer and a high gloss paint. Is this safe for torts or do I need a liner? Thanks for taking the time to write such an informative response.

 

[Angi]

I just measured it. It is 20" deep 4'X2'2" It also has a cabnit at the bottom that is 2'2" . I will use that for storage until they are a little bigger then I can cut a hole in it and use it for a hide. Or I can use it to hibernate them.

 

[Maggie Cummings]

I have 3 tort tables here that have shower curtain liners as a moisture barrier. None of my animals have died from the smell. I didn't even air them out just opened them up and stapled them in place. They worked well for me. One has been in place for 4 years without a problem...

 

[Angi]

Thanks for the info Maggie. Do you cover the sides too or just the bottom? Can you post pics of your tables. I am sure they are well done and would be great for ideas.

 

[Madkins007]

Liner: Use whatever you have access to that is big enough and cheap- I used a blue tarp, but shower liners, durable plastic sheeting, etc. will all work. It is best to line the bottom and sides seamlessly,folding it in the corners. I stapled mine to the walls nice and high.

Smell: The plasticizers are suspected of causing problems with long-term exposure, but they will air out quickly enough, even when in use under the soil.

Worms: What kind? Most worms are good for food or to keep the soil healthy. If you plan on a damp soil, you can add rolly-pollys (wood lice, pill bugs, isopods) as well to prevent other pests. If you are doing a bioactive substrate (basically a wide compost pile), then worms are a helpful tool to break down wastes, but be sure to mix a lot of sand and/or clay kitty litter in it for the bacteria to grow on.

Heating: That is going to depend so much on what is happening in your house, but as mentioned, a mix of bulbs and ceramic heaters will help. You can make it more 'automatic' by getting a thermostatic controller for your ceramic heaters- set it and forget it!

 

[Angi]

This is going to be in the house so I really don't want to use soil. I was thinking about using the pre-packaged shredded coconut coir or cypress mulch or orchid bark. I don't want any worms with my tortioses. I have earth worms I raise to feed my boxie, but the kind that hatch in to a flying bug are gross and I don't want them in my house. I hope to see some cool stuff and get some fabulous ideas tomorrow at the retile show. It anyone sees me say hi. I will be wearing a black T-shirt with a green rine-stone tutrle on it.

 

[Madkins007]

The flying guys, if they look like a cross between a fly and a mosquito, are probably fungus gnats, and will occur in any moist substrate, even cypress.

They are tough to manage, but perfectly harmless.

I have ran a soil-based indoor 4'x8' habitat all winter and no fungus gnats, no springtails/snow fleas, nothing. Also, no smell, no wastes to clean up, and almost no maintenance needed.

The trick was that I made a 'bioactive substrate' in which the natural bacterias and other micro-organisms, combined with plants, isopods and earthworms, made the soil alive- eating pest eggs, wastes, poo, and small amounts of left-over food.

It is not hard. Make up any mix of clean soil (like bagged top soil), organic materials (I used hardwood mulch and sphagnum moss), and sand or clay cat litter to make a mix where the sand is obvious. Use a few inches of this, and water it well.

Add plants, worms, isopods. Cover with a top layer of cypress or other mulch or leaf litter.

Water to keep the bottom layers moist but not soaked for a long time.

Make it even better by using a properly rated water-safe heat strip under the soil to warm the water and lower levels so the resulting humidity percolates up and keeps the entire habitat gently warmed. (This supplements, does not replace, overhead heating.) This also prevents the 'cold and clammy' substrate many of us get in the winter.

 

[Terry Allan Hall]

This is going to be in the house so I really don't want to use soil. I was thinking about using the pre-packaged shredded coconut coir or cypress mulch or orchid bark. I don't want any worms with my tortioses. I have earth worms I raise to feed my boxie, but the kind that hatch in to a flying bug are gross and I don't want them in my house. I hope to see some cool stuff and get some fabulous ideas tomorrow at the retile show. It anyone sees me say hi. I will be wearing a black T-shirt with a green rine-stone tutrle on it.

Adopt a small toad to eat any bugs and as a companion to your tort...toads make a decently amusing pet in their own right.

 

[Angi]

Just to make things clear; I have never had worms is my house. I just dont want them. I saw on someone elses post that they found worms in their enclousure.... Okay so to be completly honest I do have Mealworms in the fridg., but they are in a closed container.

 

[Zimuel]

It seems that you want to build also a bookcase cage for your turtle. The most important is having open-topped enclosures like bookcase for proper ventilation. So this furniture is definitely a good shelter for turtles.

 

[Angi]

It is already finished. They seem very happy in their new home

 

[PeanutbuttER]

Pictures?

 

[Angi]

The pictures are on a thread showing the finished table. I have a hard time posting pix on here.