After I replaced the torts substrate

[Opm21]

hello,

I'm a newbie to this page. So I have two Eastern hermanns tortoise. Apollo and Hemera. I've had them for a year already. Recently I cleaned out their cage and changed the substrate. When I did it, both of them went "crazy". They paced very fast all over in their enclosure. They would go in the area where they "used to" sleep and walk right out. It's been a few days and I haven't seen them sleep in there. The female would run around trying to go underneath Apollo and try to flip him over or something. Apollo hasn't behaved in any type of way where he wants to mate. The female would scratch along the walls, step all over their food bowl and water. I don't know why they been behaving this way. This is them right now. Anyone have an idea on why they are behaving this way? Thanks

 

[wellington]

Lots of things here needs to be changed. The enclosure is way too small for two tortoises. In fact it's only good for 1 or 2 hatchlings. They also need to be housed in their own larger enclosure. Tortoise don't do good in pairs and you already witnesses the bulling that can happen. ASAP get them in their own large 4x8 foot enclosure before one gets hurt, sick or dead.

 

[PlutoTestudo]

Wellington is absolutely correct. Here are some resources to look at.

http://www.tortoiseforum.org/threads/sticky-hermanns-tortoise-care-sheet-updated.101410/
http://www.tortoiseforum.org/thread...-together-a-lesson-learned-the-hard-way.94114

(I do not know the entire diet of your tortoises, but from what I see this may be of use)

 

[Opm21]

Lots of things here needs to be changed. The enclosure is way too small for two tortoises. In fact it's only good for 1 or 2 hatchlings. They also need to be housed in their own larger enclosure. Tortoise don't do good in pairs and you already witnesses the bulling that can happen. ASAP get them in their own large 4x8 foot enclosure before one gets hurt, sick or dead.

I purchased these two from tortoisesupply.com. Throughout the year, I would stay in contact with him by sending emails. I even asked him what was a fair enclosure for these two. He said this was fair. I spent a lot of time doing my research before I chose the "perfect" torts. These two haven't fought. What Apollo does once in a while is while they eat, he would bite her legs. He wasn't being super aggressive towards her. This is the first time that they both behave this way when I changed their substrate.

 

[Opm21]

I forgot to mention that These two torts were together for quite some time before I purchased them. If you look at the website, he would keep his torts together. He has plenty of outdoor enclosures for them. He did mention that if I was to introduce another tort from a different seller, they can be aggressive towards each other.

 

[Opm21]

Wellington is absolutely correct. Here are some resources to look at.

http://www.tortoiseforum.org/threads/sticky-hermanns-tortoise-care-sheet-updated.101410/
http://www.tortoiseforum.org/thread...-together-a-lesson-learned-the-hard-way.94114

(I do not know the entire diet of your tortoises, but from what I see this may be of use)

I used to get them Zoo Med grassland tortoise food. It has a high fiber diet.
Then I recently switched to Mazuri diet.

 

[wellington]

Well, I do like Tyler but I totally disagree with his opinion of the enclosure size. It might have been fine for when they were hatchlings but it's not fine for the size they look in the pic. The biting and flipping is bullying.
There are many threads about not keeping two tortoises together. You will have one hurt, sick or dead. If you really have a pair one male one female, he will bother her to illness or death when he does start breeding. If it's two males they will fight. If they are two females there's a slight chance they won't fight but not in the enclosure that is too small.

 

[PlutoTestudo]

I forgot to mention that These two torts were together for quite some time. If you look at the website, he would keep them together. He did mention that if I was to introduce another tort from a different seller, they can be aggressive towards each other.

This doesn't give you the excuse to keep the tortoises together. Eventually one will get bullied and die. This is a bit of an anecdote, but I use to keep two baby turtles together, and eventually one bit the other and ripped a patch of scales off. This got infected and he died. It is in your best interest to separate the two tortoises as soon as possible. (also take a look at the links if you did not already). Hope this helps!

 

[wellington]

I forgot to mention that These two torts were together for quite some time. If you look at the website, he would keep them together. He did mention that if I was to introduce another tort from a different seller, they can be aggressive towards each other.

It doesn't matter if they were together before. Eventually the bullying starts. You have already seen it. I have nothing to gain here and am not selling enclosures or tortoises. I'm just stating facts. Even if you had a chance of them staying together it's not in that too small of an enclosure. You would need a very large enclosure with lots of room, sight barriers and hides.

 

[Opm21]

This doesn't give you the excuse to keep the tortoises together. Eventually one will get bullied and die. This is a bit of an anecdote, but I use to keep two baby turtles together, and eventually one bit the other and ripped a patch of scales off. This got infected and he died. It is in your best interest to separate the two tortoises as soon as possible. (also take a look at the links if you did not already). Hope this helps!

Thank you. But to be fair, they been together in the enclosure for a year. They don't bully each other. I only found it unusual that they behaved a certain way after I cleaned their cage. I do plan on buying another tortoise house since I want them to have more space so they don't always have to see each other.

 

[Opm21]

It doesn't matter if they were together before. Eventually the bullying starts. You have already seen it. I have nothing to gain here and am not selling enclosures or tortoises. I'm just stating facts. Even if you had a chance of them staying together it's not in that too small of an enclosure. You would need a very large enclosure with lots of room, sight barriers and hides.

I appreciate everyone's input/concern. I do plan on getting a second one. I tried searching online to see where I can order one. Pinterest showed a lot of cool ones but couldn't find a site where I could purchase one.

 

[wellington]

Thank you. But to be fair, they been together in the enclosure for a year. They don't bully each other. I only found it unusual that they behaved a certain way after I cleaned their cage. I do plan on buying another tortoise house since I want them to have more space so they don't always have to see each other.

It's good that you will build another enclosure. However, the size I'm talking about is not really a size that will fit in a house unless you can five them a room. You would be better off giving them their own enclosure as you wouldn't have to go as big. The minimum size for one adult is 4x8 feet. Putting two together would have to be more then double that. Then if it didn't work, you would still have to separate. The bullying has already begun, you seen it and I'm sure you missed all the other signs that's not so obvious.
Build two 4x8 foot enclosures and everyone will be very happy. They don't want nor need a buddy. If you want to breed them, then you would put them together to breed and then separate them once they did.

 

[PlutoTestudo]

I really do not want to come off as a mean person, but you really need to separate the tortoises and make some serious changes in the way the tortoises are maintained. If you are looking for a tortoise table, I recommend that you build one yourself. Not a lot of sellers offer an enclosure that is large enough for adult tortoises. Here is one I built for our tort.

You can get ideas and find resources on how to build one in the Enclosure section of the forum.
http://www.tortoiseforum.org/forums/tortoise-enclosures.7/

 

[wellington]

I appreciate everyone's input/concern. I do plan on getting a second one. I tried searching online to see where I can order one. Pinterest showed a lot of cool ones but couldn't find a site where I could purchase one.

Build your own it's cheaper. Or buy two large book case shelving units and don't put the shelves in but line it with plastic and add what you want to it. Also a large dresser works good. Take the drawers out a few drawer supports and again line with plastic and add the furnishings, hide etc.

 

[Opm21]

Thanks for your input.

 

[Opm21]

Funny that after I made this post, they decided to go back into their normal spot in the dark to sleep. Lol

 

[ZidaoW]

hello,

I'm a newbie to this page. So I have two Eastern hermanns tortoise. Apollo and Hemera. I've had them for a year already. Recently I cleaned out their cage and changed the substrate. When I did it, both of them went "crazy". They paced very fast all over in their enclosure. They would go in the area where they "used to" sleep and walk right out. It's been a few days and I haven't seen them sleep in there. The female would run around trying to go underneath Apollo and try to flip him over or something. Apollo hasn't behaved in any type of way where he wants to mate. The female would scratch along the walls, step all over their food bowl and water. I don't know why they been behaving this way. This is them right now. Anyone have an idea on why they are behaving this way? Thanks

Bro this is even smaller than my indoor enclosure for my russian.