An hour an inch is not always applicable.

[Kapidolo Farms]

No Teresa. I hover over and around the sunning enclosure with a stop watch and at precisely 59 minutes and 59 seconds I begin reaching for the one inch baby tortoise, so that by the time my hand reaches the baby, it has been exactly one hour. At which point I rush the baby back indoors where I have a ruler waiting to make sure it hasn't grown while it was outside, and isn't actually larger than one inch now. You can imagine what a feat this is when sunning more than one or two tortoises at a time.

Sarcasm does not suite you well. IMO.

 

[Tom]

Sarcasm does not suite you well. IMO.

What do you mean? I had a hearty laugh over it.

 

[BloodbucketXXL]

I don't know. Maybe it's just me, but with lots of different types of things I've seen lots of beginners making really obvious mistakes because they're following a rule instead of thinking about why/when the rule applies. Meanwhile, there actually are going to be some HARD rules that one just plain doesn't break at all. Then on top of that there are going to be sources that hear a soft rule and repeat it as a hard rule (or vice versa), and that's not even counting the rules (hard or soft) that are just plain wrong.

Obviously it's the job of any keeper (or anyone doing ANYTHING) to read up as much as possible in order to determine what's most correct for their particular circumstances (which in many cases may also require a healthy dose of pure trial and error). But as pointed out above, a lot of beginners don't do that. Or simply haven't had the time to do all of that yet. Ideally, when it comes to giving advice, I'd like a bit more emphasis on "to a large extent you'll just have to figure out the specifics on your own."

Of course, then you run into the opposite problem. Overemphasize to a beginner that they'll have to figure stuff out for themselves, and there's the risk of them COMPLETELY screwing things up because they think that there AREN'T any general guidelines. I've run into that problem too. Seeing a beginner ask a question on a forum and everyone replies "you can't do that because X will happen." And in at least certain cases, that's largely untrue: people do it all the time and it usually DOESN'T happen. But actually honestly ask about the likelihood of it happening, and it boils down to "we can't really talk about that because someone might get the wrong idea."

Anyway, I just feel like a lot of people may lose perspective of how utterly confusing this kind of stuff can be to beginners. And yeah, I realize that it's not really my job to be explaining the nuances to people. the information is already out there. Or if it isn't out there, the fact that it's not out there indicates that they'll have to figure it out for themselves. But I also have to sort of figure, if I'm taking that stance then there's not much point in me giving advice at all.

Which I'm honestly starting to be more inclined to do. Sort of like a parent asking me advice about their kids, I'm increasingly feeling like I should be saying, "don't ask me, if someone has the answer then I'm not the one who should be giving it."

 

[Kapidolo Farms]

What I have seen is that at least a few folks here and through other venues are having a first pet ever, as a tortoises. It might be someone who never even took care of a house plant. That person's interest to have a pet tortoise is their first exposure to caring for another living thing. For me that is a really grounding conversation. I've had pets all my life. I teethed on the ears of a German Shepard, I am told. All my life.

Someone who may have avoided pets because of so many other things going on, finally finds they have an interest in a tortoise. I spoken with several teens who grew up in families without pets, who want a tortoise. Maybe they weren't so scholarly either and most of high school science was a long string of blah blah blah.

But now they have an interest in a pet tortoise and are blown away by light being in different wave lengths and some of them are actual nutrients (of a sort). That scutes are laid down sorta like epoxy and the force of the drying epoxy can bend the underlying bone ( that spins in your head).

The desire to get it right the first time and the conflicting information can really be very depressing or anger-ing. Just like each tortoise-situation may be different, each person-situation may be different too.

 

[Tom]

I don't know. Maybe it's just me, but with lots of different types of things I've seen lots of beginners making really obvious mistakes because they're following a rule instead of thinking about why/when the rule applies. Meanwhile, there actually are going to be some HARD rules that one just plain doesn't break at all. Then on top of that there are going to be sources that hear a soft rule and repeat it as a hard rule (or vice versa), and that's not even counting the rules (hard or soft) that are just plain wrong.

Obviously it's the job of any keeper (or anyone doing ANYTHING) to read up as much as possible in order to determine what's most correct for their particular circumstances (which in many cases may also require a healthy dose of pure trial and error). But as pointed out above, a lot of beginners don't do that. Or simply haven't had the time to do all of that yet. Ideally, when it comes to giving advice, I'd like a bit more emphasis on "to a large extent you'll just have to figure out the specifics on your own."

Of course, then you run into the opposite problem. Overemphasize to a beginner that they'll have to figure stuff out for themselves, and there's the risk of them COMPLETELY screwing things up because they think that there AREN'T any general guidelines. I've run into that problem too. Seeing a beginner ask a question on a forum and everyone replies "you can't do that because X will happen." And in at least certain cases, that's largely untrue: people do it all the time and it usually DOESN'T happen. But actually honestly ask about the likelihood of it happening, and it boils down to "we can't really talk about that because someone might get the wrong idea."

Anyway, I just feel like a lot of people may lose perspective of how utterly confusing this kind of stuff can be to beginners. And yeah, I realize that it's not really my job to be explaining the nuances to people. the information is already out there. Or if it isn't out there, the fact that it's not out there indicates that they'll have to figure it out for themselves. But I also have to sort of figure, if I'm taking that stance then there's not much point in me giving advice at all.

Which I'm honestly starting to be more inclined to do. Sort of like a parent asking me advice about their kids, I'm increasingly feeling like I should be saying, "don't ask me, if someone has the answer then I'm not the one who should be giving it."

You make some sensible points. So what is the solution? Here is my solution: Do your best to phrase things in a simple way that most people can understand and follow. Example: Soak your baby tortoise daily. Period. Done. I could write 10 pages explaining why, and what happens if you don't, and how to do it for every size or species or individual situation, but why would I do that? Why over explain a simple concept? If someone has specific questions or wishes to do some trial and error on their own, hey, that's great. Go for. Want to discuss the concept more? Great! I'm happy to talk tortoises and explain how I came to the conclusions and assertions that I regularly make. Here is my test for this sort of condensed simple to follow instruction: If someone follows this advice will their animal be harmed? If not, then the statement is good to go for me.

The soaking argument comes to mind. Many people on this forum say it is unnecessary to soak baby tortoises every day. Some have even gone so far as to attempt to demonize the process calling it "forced soaks", as if I'm standing over my tortoise maniacally physically forcing it to stay in water and grunting with exertion with my face all screwed up as I do it. None of these people have ever answered two simple questions: Question # 1: If a new person reads my advice and soaks their tortoise daily, even though it might not "need" it, can any harm come to the tortoise?" No. No it can't. Question #2: If they follow the advice that soaking daily isn't necessary and just do it {insert time frame here…}, might harm come to that baby? Yes. Yes it can. Some people live in dry climates. Some people read the advice to let their baby be outside all day. If this person follows my advice, the baby should still survive and stay hydrated. If this person follows the other advice, the baby is likely to die. Many DT babies die of dehydration issues here in CA.

I feel no need to over complicate things and over explain simple concepts. Soak babies daily. One hour of sun per inch of baby tortoise. Use a closed chamber. House babies of tropical species in monsoon conditions. Nothing bad will happen if this simple advice is followed. Try to explain all the subtleties and nuance that has been discussed here and you will confuse people, possibly do harm to tortoises, and also lose a lot of readers. More study is welcome, but simple, easy to follow advice is good too.

 

[Jay Bagley]

Simple versus a 2000 word essay answer, I definitely like simple better.

 

[CarolM]

No Teresa. I hover over and around the sunning enclosure with a stop watch and at precisely 59 minutes and 59 seconds I begin reaching for the one inch baby tortoise, so that by the time my hand reaches the baby, it has been exactly one hour. At which point I rush the baby back indoors where I have a ruler waiting to make sure it hasn't grown while it was outside, and isn't actually larger than one inch now. You can imagine what a feat this is when sunning more than one or two tortoises at a time.

[emoji23]

 

[Kapidolo Farms]

Simple versus a 2000 word essay answer, I definitely like simple better.

Because I said so.

 

[CarolM]

Because I said so.

Whahahaha. I hated it when my parents told me that. Now that is my line for my kids. I have yet to try it on my torts. Do you think it will work on them?[emoji23] [emoji23]

 

[Kapidolo Farms]

Whahahaha. I hated it when my parents told me that. Now that is my line for my kids. I have yet to try it on my torts. Do you think it will work on them?[emoji23] [emoji23]

Kay Bagley was lamenting having to read through a 2000 word rational for husbandry issues, preferring a simpler explanation. The simplest explanation I know is "Because I said so".

 

[Jay Bagley]

Kay Bagley was lamenting having to read through a 2000 word rational for husbandry issues, preferring a simpler explanation. The simplest explanation I know is "Because I said so".

Kay Bagley? That's my cousin. I was not aware she had a tortoise, this is exceptional news. If she is lamenting over one of your 2,000 word essays, I will tell her to put a smile on her face and keep reading. Even if it turns out to be a 4,000 word, I will tell her to strap in, buckle down, and read it. It will definitely benefit her and her tortoise, all joking aside on that one. The stuff you put out there is always good, and very beneficial to read.

 

[Kapidolo Farms]

Kay Bagley? That's my cousin. I was not aware she had a tortoise, this is exceptional news. If she is lamenting over one of your 2,000 word essays, I will tell her to put a smile on her face and keep reading. Even if it turns out to be a 4,000 word, I will tell her to strap in, buckle down, and read it. It will definitely benefit her and her tortoise, all joking aside on that one. The stuff you put out there is always good, and very beneficial to read.

So, I guess I need new reading glasses, or maybe I'm just tired from the weekend.


Hi Jay, I do get it that long winded explanations can turn a reader off, which is what I figured your point had been.

 

[Jay Bagley]

So, I guess I need new reading glasses, or maybe I'm just tired from the weekend.


Hi Jay, I do get it that long winded explanations can turn a reader off, which is what I figured your point had been.

All good, keep them coming. I really do enjoy reading them.

 

[Kristy1970]

HOT and humid, way south Louisiana! Feel real temp 91, 84% humidity and Daisy is loving it, when it starts to drizzle she pokes her head out from her cave! I’m waiting for it to rain, it’s been so dry so I’m soak down her out door enclosure and she loves the warm moist grass. Only in unscreened area when we are out with her, then she goes in chicken coup lol.

 

[Maro2Bear]

HOT and humid, way south Louisiana! Feel real temp 91, 84% humidity and Daisy is loving it, when it starts to drizzle she pokes her head out from her cave! I’m waiting for it to rain, it’s been so dry so I’m soak down her out door enclosure and she loves the warm moist grass. Only in unscreened area when we are out with her, then she goes in chicken coup lol. View attachment 243825View attachment 243826View attachment 243827View attachment 243828

Pretty soon, you will need many more layers to keep your Sully enclosed!

 

[Kristy1970]

Pretty soon, you will need many more layers to keep your Sully enclosed!

YES! this will be the only summer lol, it was just landscaping bricks I had on hand, didn’t cost anything. Husband is going to build something higher but temporary in the spring, we bought 2.5 acres but it will be about 2 years before we build and move, then she will get a nice permanent enclosure. We will build a small barn with heated humid hide for winter. I really also want a miniature donkey, so it will need to have more room, every thing I read about miniature donkeys, they need a ton of companionship so they recommend 2 lol. I’ll do lots of research, have plenty time!

 

[C. Nelson]

Some of you might find this article as fascinating as I did. Go to TortoiseTrust.org and click on:
The Effect of Basking Lamps on the Health of Captive Tortoises and other Reptiles

In a nutshell, they show the difference of how an artificial light hits the dome of a tortoise shell versus natural light from the sun.

 

[katieandiggy]

I’m in he U.K. and Tortoise Trust seems to be the popular site here.
I’ve read most of their articles. They kind of state the opposite with most of the care sheets than this site.
I think even the experienced people on this forum will agree with Tortoise Trust that basking lamps/spot lamps are desiccating on tortoises shells.
I did read an interesting study that they did with the plastic that UV light can penetrate. It’s cheap and they did lots of comparisons, have a read. Can be a good way to still get the UVB rays whilst in an enclosure in not so good weather.

 

[C. Nelson]

I’m in he U.K. and Tortoise Trust seems to be the popular site here.
I’ve read most of their articles. They kind of state the opposite with most of the care sheets than this site.
I think even the experienced people on this forum will agree with Tortoise Trust that basking lamps/spot lamps are desiccating on tortoises shells.
I did read an interesting study that they did with the plastic that UV light can penetrate. It’s cheap and they did lots of comparisons, have a read. Can be a good way to still get the UVB rays whilst in an enclosure in not so good weather.

I’m in he U.K. and Tortoise Trust seems to be the popular site here.
I’ve read most of their articles. They kind of state the opposite with most of the care sheets than this site.
I think even the experienced people on this forum will agree with Tortoise Trust that basking lamps/spot lamps are desiccating on tortoises shells.
I did read an interesting study that they did with the plastic that UV light can penetrate. It’s cheap and they did lots of comparisons, have a read. Can be a good way to still get the UVB rays whilst in an enclosure in not so good weather.

I noticed that their advice is way off too! Look at some of the habitats- I fear for the hatchlings that might get stuck in those huge rocks. I am going to look into the plastic that UV can penetrate. Haven't been able to find that on their website. Do you remember the title?