baby desert tortoise or not?

[Ciri]

For hatchlings the care sheets I gave you links for don't address how often to soak the baby tortoise. A constant source of clean water in a very shallow dish is very important. I find hatchlings are in and out of the water all day. The water needs to be shallow enough that the hatchling can easily breathe while sitting in the water. The water should go up to no more than one third the height of the tortoise's shell. (For a newborn, about a quarter of an inch is usually enough.) the dish will need to be sanitized daily. I use ceramic dishes that the tortoise can climb in and out of. I usually get really small ones from Crate & Barrel, as they are usually a lot cheaper than pet store dishes. I wash them in the dishwasher on the heated drying cycle which will sanitize it. You can also use a bleach and water mixture – just soak the dish for 20 minutes or so, then rinse really well with water. You can also use a plastic lid from a food container to soak her in (this way it will be made of food grade plastic so is safer). It can be hard to find a dish tiny enough for such a little newborn.

While there may be differences of opinion about how warm the warm end of the plastic bin or terrarium should be, it is important that they don't get overheated. Over 95°F for too long can cause brain damage. I have usually made the warm area 85°F to 90°F. This has worked quite well.

It's great that you already have box turtle experience. I got box turtles first, and it helped me in understanding how to pick up on my tortoise's expressions. And I have to say, Tiddles is really, really cute!

 

[AmordeAbba]

What you have there is a CA Desert Tortoise hatchling. They hatch this time of year out in the desert and then almost immediately go into hibernation. Sometime they hatch in their nest chamber and stay in there together and hibernate, and then emerge all together the next spring.

Most likely one of your neighbors has a pair and this baby was able to squeeze into your yard. It is perfectly legal to keep them. It is not legal to go out to the desert and collect one. You are supposed to have a permit. You get the permit through your local CTTC chapter and as Yvonne said, it is simple and free. However, they won't want to issue you a permit until your baby is 2-3 years old. The reason is that most of them don't survive their first two years. Sadly this is due to the bad advice that they dispense on how to care for them. Almost everything you read on the internet tells you all about how to dehydrate and stunt them. Following their advice will eventually result in bladder or kidney stones, which is a common problem with this species. I recommend you not follow their advice. I've raised dozens of DT hatchlings over many years and not a one of mine had ever died. Instead they thrive and grow. The problem is that their housing recommendations are based on assumptions of above ground weather in the desert. But these guys don't just walk around all day in the scorching desert sun above ground. They live in burrows under ground. Dehydration is the number one killer of captive DTs. Daily soaks in warm shallow water will really help to keep your baby alive and well.

I typed this up for russian tortoises, but care, housing and feeding is very similar for the two different species. If you start your little baby like this, he will thrive: http://www.tortoiseforum.org/threads/russian-tortoise-care-sheet.80698/

Here is a thread with some outdoor housing ideas for days with nice weather:
http://www.tortoiseforum.org/threads/semi-underground-russian-box.98590/page-2

Here is what NOT to do:
http://www.tortoiseforum.org/threads/beginner-mistakes.45180/


One thing to be cautious of in your area as your tortoise grow and spends more time outside is your cold clammy beach weather. It is not good for them to live near the coast. Your indoor housing will solve this problem and the tortoise can go outside on warm sunny days. As it gets older and bigger, the addition of a heated night box will allow him to live outside full time.

Good luck. I hope you have lots of questions.

Thank you for all your help!
*Is the eating for the Russian Tortoise the same for the one I have? I don't see a lot of people talking about the same kind that I have found and mine has not eaten anything yet.
*So far I have just placed him/her in a large plastic tub with some grass, cut carrots, and flowers from my garden (no chemicals on them) at least until I can go to the store later and get what I need.


*Also do I need to be concerned about it hibernating or anything because I see that some do that and some don't.

 

[DWB]

AmordeAbba, Congrats, what a beautiful baby! My tort story is amazingly like yours, you have to read it! Now, just over a year later, my tort is thriving and growing daily, my wife and I are members of our local CTTC chapter. You, like myself, have been blessed with a beautiful gift. It may seem as though that your tort was extremely lucky you found it(so true), but you will find that you are the lucky one, to have one of these shelled miracles enter your life. Dave

My story: http://www.tortoiseforum.org/threads/howdy-from-my-sulcata.82354/

 

[AmordeAbba]

AmordeAbba, Congrats, what a beautiful baby! My tort story is amazingly like yours, you have to read it! Now, just over a year later, my tort is thriving and growing daily, my wife and I are members of our local CTTC chapter. You, like myself, have been blessed with a beautiful gift. It may seem as though that your tort was extremely lucky you found it(so true), but you will find that you are the lucky one, to have one of these shelled miracles enter your life. Dave

My story: http://www.tortoiseforum.org/threads/howdy-from-my-sulcata.82354/

Wow! Awesome story! I did the same thing too when I found this little guy! I googled "I found a turtle" LOL I was surprised to see how many people have the same encounters! Yes I see it as a blessing as well. I haven't found too much on CA desert tortoise though. This is an exciting new journey that's for sure! So glad I came across this forum. There are forums for everything these days so I typed in "turtle forum" and came across this one ! Everyone has been wonderful help so far! I'm really happy.

 

[Tom]

Thank you for all your help!
*Is the eating for the Russian Tortoise the same for the one I have? I don't see a lot of people talking about the same kind that I have found and mine has not eaten anything yet.
*So far I have just placed him/her in a large plastic tub with some grass, cut carrots, and flowers from my garden (no chemicals on them) at least until I can go to the store later and get what I need.
View attachment 104848 View attachment 104849 View attachment 104850

*Also do I need to be concerned about it hibernating or anything because I see that some do that and some don't.

Diet for DTs and russians is very similar. I might lean toward a little more succulents, cactus and grass with a DT, but all the weeds, flowers and leaves are the same. Your baby might not be eating yet, because his temperature is too low without a heat lamp and because he is still adjusting to his new life. Also, being a brand new hatchling, they receive substinance from their yolk sac. Even though it has absorbed into the body cavity, they are still deriving nutrition from it at this stage. This will also reduce appetite for a while longer. I wouldn't offer carrots to a hatchling. Too high in sugar and it will mess with his intestinal tract while he's just trying to establish some good gut flora and fauna. Small amounts mixed with other foods are okay for older ones once in a while though.

Hibernation is a controversial topic. Opinons vary widely, and neither side is necessarily right or wrong. Personally, I would skip hibernation until at least next year for this new hatchling. Just set him up inside the right way, and use a safe outdoor enclosure for our nicer warm winter days.

Here is another diet sheet I made for sulcatas. There is a list of a whole bunch of good stuff, and you can just skip over the text emphasizing grass for sulcatas. Some grass is good for DTs too, but they don't need as much as sulcatas.
http://www.tortoiseforum.org/threads/for-those-who-have-a-young-sulcata.76744/

 

[Yvonne G]

... it is important that they don't get overheated. Over 95°F for too long can cause brain damage.

I'm curious why you think this. You do realize, don't you, that your own brain is constantly at 98.6F degrees. I realize that humans are not reptiles, however, I don't think being able to warm up a cold-blooded animal's inner core to 100F is harmful.

 

[Ciri]

From the Arizona game and Fish website, information on caring for desert tortoises:

"Shelter temperatures should always be kept below 90°F because a tortoise can overheat and suffer brain damage."

source:
http://www.azgfd.gov/w_c/tortoise/burrow.shtml

If it's hotter it wouldn't seem to matter, as long as the tortoise can walk away from the heat. However, hatchlings do tend to flip themselves frequently as they learn to navigate the world in their new body. Sometimes they do end up stuck upside down, and if they overheat because they are underneath a light that is too hot, or outside in direct sun in the summer, they are in danger. Of course, it could cause not only brain damage, but death. I'd just rather be on the safe side, since temperatures in the 80s will activate their immune system, and their appetite. So in my experience, I haven't seen the need to create temperatures over 90° indoors.

 

[Ciri]

Yvonne, I originally found that information on this website where the care sheet is written by my reptile specialist veterinarian who has 35 years of experience caring for the desert museum's desert tortoises, as well as many more tortoises in his private practice. (I couldn't find this at first – it's a long detailed care sheet.):

see: WARM WEATHER CARE
"During the summer the burrow (den) must have afternoon shade and the interior can not exceed 90°F. Otherwise the tortoise may overheat and be subject to brain damage!"

Source:
http://www.desertmuseum.org/programs/tap_tortcare.php

 

[Yvonne G]

That site is talking about the SHELTER for the tortoise. In other words, inside the hiding place. A tortoise needs to be able to go into his hiding place and either warm up or cool down (depending upon the weather). I'm sure that site was talking about keeping your tortoise outside with a shelter, and not talking about an indoor habitat. The temperature directly under the light in and indoor habitat, should be at least 100F degrees. If a tortoise wants to warm up outdoors, he'll sit in the sun. He gets very warm in the sun, then he moves off to a cooler area. This is what he needs to be able to do in an indoor enclosure too. Sit under the light or at the side of where the light shines down and get warmed up to 100F or so clear down to his inner core. Then he moves off and either eats or goes into his shelter. This is why we suggest a larger indoor habitat...so you can have a warm side and a room temperature side.

 

[Ciri]

Yes, and I did think about that. I prefer to play it safe, simply because of the risk of a tortoise in a hot area upside down, when it can't flip itself back over and go to a cooler area.

 

[Ciri]

AmordeAbba,
Just so you know, the veterinarian who wrote the Desert Museum care sheet on the desert tortoise is very accomplished. He has saved the lives of a few of my box turtles/tortoises. He doesn't give bad advice that kills animals. He relies a lot on scientific research on desert tortoises.
His bio:
Dr. Jarchow is the consulting veterinarian for reptiles and amphibians at the Arizona-Sonora Desert Museum. He is an internationally-recognized authority in wildlife veterinary medicine and a specialist in desert tortoise health management who has conducted numerous field and clinical studies of North American tortoises.