Bath time every day and pooping...

[no one]

So I came in contact with another Tortoise keeper and of course we talked about how we keep our Tortoises.
And about Humidity and Pyramiding and such... I told him I give my Tortoises a bath every day for 30 or 40 minutes or so. And he said I should not do that, because they will poop out all there nutritions every time way to fast. Can you guys give me some insight, if what he says is true or not?
I always thought poop is just waste after you get all the good stuff out of your food. Sorry biology class has been way to long ago for me... Feel a bit stupid right know!!

@Markw84
@Tom
@Will

And all the others... Thank you!!

 

[Tom]

This is another of those ridiculous tortoise myths from the past. Whats my proof you might ask?

I've been soaking babies daily for 10 years now. Since January of 2008. There have been literally hundreds of sulcatas, over 100 leopards, 24 russians, 5 radiata, 14 platynota, and dozens of CDTs. 100% survival rate, and all of them 100% thriving. All of my current breeding groups of sulcatas, SA leopards and platynota were all soaked daily from the day I got them as hatchlings, or from the day I hatched them myself. Now I'm soaking their babies daily.

If daily soaking makes them poop out all their nutrients, why do all of mine thrive and grow better than tortoises that are soaked less often? Because its false. That's why. Nothing but an old myth founded on someone's incorrect guesses.

 

[no one]

Thank you Tom!! I thought so, but wanted to ask. I am still worried after loosing Sterretje.

 

[Tom]

Thank you Tom!! I thought so, but wanted to ask. I am still worried after loosing Sterretje.

You are welcome.

I have raised tortoises with the once-a-week, or "infrequent", soaking routine and I know what the results will be. As I explained above, I've also done a lot of the daily soaking routine too. Ask the person who told you that non-sense about the nutrients: How many hatchlings have they raised with daily soaks and what were the results? They will undoubtably answer: "Zero." Because if they had ever done it, they would know what they are saying is dead wrong.

I knew I was right about this back in 2010 when I started it and saw how well it worked after two years. A few years ago, I had the privilege of getting to read Mr. Zovickians radiata care sheet. @zovick explained that he soaks his radiata babies daily for the first FOUR YEARS. I already had zero doubt that daily soaks were the way to go, but when I read that from the man I consider to be the foremost authority of all things tortoise since the 1960's, well, let's just say that his words erased any possibility of doubt.

 

[no one]

Before I came to this forum I felt it was good to soak my new baby little star. I had no reason for it, cause it is still not much done here in the Netherlands. But when I started reading on the forum I knew my instincts on the matter where correct. I rembember your thread about your sulcata hatchlings vividly.

 

[Squirtle's mom]

My vet told me that soaking is vital to a tort, for bathroom purposes and for drinking water. If they don’t soak enough, they don’t get enough water, which leads to a multitude of problems (which is also why you need to offer CLEAN water everyday, they shouldn’t drink their waste)

 

[Tom]

My vet told me that soaking is vital to a tort, for bathroom purposes and for drinking water. If they don’t soak enough, they don’t get enough water, which leads to a multitude of problems (which is also why you need to offer CLEAN water everyday, they shouldn’t drink their waste)

This is very good and also very unusual. You seem to have found a vet that has been able to keep updated on proper tortoise care. Most of them are still parroting the old wrong info that we were all taught 20-30 years ago. I hope your vet can speak to and convince other vets, breeders and keepers.

 

[Markw84]

There's not much I need to say. @Tom has said it in terms that cannot be denied.

I love Tom's approach as he does not let his ego get in the way and tries things and will eagerly change things when he finds something works better. Good enough is not good enough. Surviving is not the goal, thriving is. So the proof is in actual, repeatable results. Not in theories or assumptions alone.

I am a bit different in that I HAVE TO KNOW WHY!! I am the same in adopting practices. I will quickly change when I see or find something that is producing repeatable results. But I then need to know why! Most of the tortoise myths are founded in good reasoning. A species that comes from what we see as a hot and dry climate is reasonable to assume needs hot and dry. -- Until you look further. However the persistent myth of pooping too much robs nutrients just makes no sense to me from the beginning! That would be like saying if you pee enough at a bar, you won't become drunk! Metabolism is quick to break down and absorb nutrients in the stomach. They are absorbed quickly into the bloodstream. And there is time required to move things through!! No matter what you do! Ever tried to get a dog to "hurry things along" and pass something it ate and shouldn't have? You just can't rush some things.

If anything, my initial take on this myth would have been the opposite. The more you do to facilitate gut movement, the more higher quality "fresher" nutrients are in the gut, and you are getting the older "used" stuff out quicker.

 

[Tom]

It occurs to me…

I mentioned my results and experience, and I mentioned what the esteemed Mr. Z had to say on the subject, but I completely neglected to add in the experience and results obtained by the thousands of members of this TFO community who are also soaking their babies daily. The tortoises on this forum are the healthiest and best looking in the world. There is no way to quantify it, but I wonder how many tortoises on this forum and around the world would have died if their keepers hadn't taken the advice to soak daily.

 

[no one]

Thank you Tom and Mark. I do appreciate all the time you guys always put in your replies. I do not always know what to say in return. I am a person of fewer words. But I do learn a lot from you both. So thank you again...

 

[no one]

And I wholeheartedly agree we should always go for thriving and not just surviving. Our Tortoises deserve that. The longer I keep Tortoises the more I love them!! But I do find it difficult sometimes. I am a bit of a perfectionist. LOL Why only give it a 100%, if you can give it 200% or more.

 

[Markw84]

I am a bit of a perfectionist. LOL Why only give it a 100%, if you can give it 200% or more.

OK... Just for fun I have to take this tangent - As a former motivational speaker, I fully understand the spirit of what the phrase "give it 200%" is all about. However, have you ever thought about it? It's impossible to give more than you have = 100%. If you are able to give more than that, you are really saying that when you do give 100% you really are not giving all you have!!! Could you then do 250%? or why not 300%? I always liked to encourage people to really put 100% into something if that's their intent - ALL they have.

 

[Bambam1989]

I think you guys have created the perfect Tortoise Forum motto- "It's not about surviving, it's about thriving!"

 

[Jay Bagley]

I think you guys have created the perfect Tortoise Forum motto- "It's not about surviving, it's about thriving!"

Love it!!

 

[no one]

OK... Just for fun I have to take this tangent - As a former motivational speaker, I fully understand the spirit of what the phrase "give it 200%" is all about. However, have you ever thought about it? It's impossible to give more than you have = 100%. If you are able to give more than that, you are really saying that when you do give 100% you really are not giving all you have!!! Could you then do 250%? or why not 300%? I always liked to encourage people to really put 100% into something if that's their intent - ALL they have.

You made me laugh!! Again you are totally right... All I have is my 100% and that can be different than someone else's 100%. That is more logical. I do like logic you know.

 

[no one]

I think you guys have created the perfect Tortoise Forum motto- "It's not about surviving, it's about thriving!"

I think you are right. Maybe make some t-shirts so we can sponsor our Forum. And spread the word... Lol

 

[Kapidolo Farms]

Soaking does not always lead to pooping. Sometimes they just drink and sit there. Soaking with the idea that it 'makes them poop' and loose nutrients is not well reasoned. I can understand the idea, but it is full of fallacy.

 

[no one]

Thank you Will. I had to look up the word fallacy though. Good one... Vol begriegelijkheid.

 

[Clementine's Keeper]

You are welcome.

I have raised tortoises with the once-a-week, or "infrequent", soaking routine and I know what the results will be. As I explained above, I've also done a lot of the daily soaking routine too. Ask the person who told you that non-sense about the nutrients: How many hatchlings have they raised with daily soaks and what were the results? They will undoubtably answer: "Zero." Because if they had ever done it, they would know what they are saying is dead wrong.

I knew I was right about this back in 2010 when I started it and saw how well it worked after two years. A few years ago, I had the privilege of getting to read Mr. Zovickians radiata care sheet. @zovick explained that he soaks his radiata babies daily for the first FOUR YEARS. I already had zero doubt that daily soaks were the way to go, but when I read that from the man I consider to be the foremost authority of all things tortoise since the 1960's, well, let's just say that his words erased any possibility of doubt.

Tom, a question from a beginner owner, just so I understand why I am doing what I'm doing.....
I do soak Clementine every day for about 30 minutes. Most times she pees and poops but she never appears to drink while soaking and I've never seen her go anywhere near her water in her enclosure, inside or out (sunken terracotta plant pot base). If she's from a dry area (she's a Russian), would she be able to soak herself in the wild? Why do we it in captivity? I'm happy to do anything to keep her healthy, I just want to understand why we do it, why I never see her drink and why she doesn't seem to like it much. Thanks for info you have [emoji1]

 

[Tom]

Tom, a question from a beginner owner, just so I understand why I am doing what I'm doing.....
I do soak Clementine every day for about 30 minutes. Most times she pees and poops but she never appears to drink while soaking and I've never seen her go anywhere near her water in her enclosure, inside or out (sunken terracotta plant pot base). If she's from a dry area (she's a Russian), would she be able to soak herself in the wild? Why do we it in captivity? I'm happy to do anything to keep her healthy, I just want to understand why we do it, why I never see her drink and why she doesn't seem to like it much. Thanks for info you have [emoji1]

We have very few pieces to a very large puzzle when it comes to understanding what happens in the wild. In topics like this, what happens in the wild frequently becomes part of the heated debate. I think its good to try to understand what these tortoises of all the various species encounter and survive in the wild, but all the speculation about what happens in the wild carries less weight with me than the large body of factual evidence that we have from the thousands of captive tortoises that occupy our enclosures all day every day. I work with several reptile vets, and we know what typically goes wrong with captive tortoises. One of the major problems plaguing captive tortoises of all species is chronic dehydration as a direct result of keepers attempting to duplicate what they mistakenly think happens in the wild. Another known fact about the wild is that somewhere between 300 and 1000 babies die for every tortoise that survives to adulthood. The wild is a very stark and harsh place and it is difficult for them to survive there. Obviously, many do survive, but the hardships they encounter and survive are substantial. In captivity we can give them optimal conditions, instead of the barely survivable conditions they might encounter in the wild. Regular soaks to keep them hydrated, whether they initially seem to like it or not, are one of these ways we can help keep them healthy and thriving.

What size is your tortoise? Only babies need daily soaks. Adults are usually fine with 1-3 soaks a week, depending on weather and climate. In a more humid mild climate, once a week is plenty. In a very hot dry climate like mine, 2 or 3 soaks a week in our hot summers is more appropriate. If you are soaking daily, it is not a surpise that you never see your tortoise drink. They typical take on lots of water during a soak, so no need to drink for the rest of the day. Also, sticking their neck out and taking a drink is a very vulnerable position for them to be in. Its not surprising that tortoises don't do this when they know people are around. I recently had 20 young russians in outdoor enclosures and the only time I ever saw one drink was when I snuck up and peeked over the little wall of their enclosure. I only ever saw the single tortoise drink on that one occasion. As soon as he caught sight of me in his periphery, he immediately stopped drinking and left the area of the water bowl.

In the wild they do have rainy periods, and while I have never seen a photo of a wild Russian tortoise soaking in a rain puddle, I'd bet money that it happens.