Behavior Questions.

[NavyDT]

Hello all,

i know some of you may have read my other post, but i wanted to see if i could get some answers to my tortoises behavioral problems.

Like i said before i rescued this tortoise from inter city Chicago. they said she was 20 years old ( I don't believe it ) and that she had been kept in their basement ever sense. when i went down in their basement she was in one of those stainless steel water troughs ( like for horses ) with a light on one end and no substrate. there was rotting lettuce, what looked like weeks of feces and about a quarter of an inch of water.

i at first designed a tortoise table for her to live on. it was a 8ft by 4ft table with 10 inch sides. it had a full spectrum UVA/UVB merc light, basking spotlight temps were around 100F, with the rest of the table in the mid 70's. it had 2 hides, one near the light, and one on the opposite side. for substrate i used livestock quality hay. i was attempting to feed her timothy hay but i could never get her to eat it, so i was feeding her primarily leafy greens. the problem was she was never content in the table and would pace around and around until the scales on her forearms and feet became raw.

i decided to get rid of the table and let her just have free roam of the entire apartment, keeping the light on and a pile of hay in one corner, i figured if she got cold or hungry she would just go over and sit in the hay. the problem is she would routinely go to the coldest darkest part of the house and sleep there for weeks ( i once let her sleep for 2 weeks with out bothering her, but she never moved so i got worried and moved her back to her light ) i soak her at least once a week in our sink filled with luke warm water, and i would imagine she defecates about once every week or so.

we have a small back yard and i let her live out there last summer. she spent 90% of her time under a bush and i only saw her grazing in the back yard twice, both times in the early morning.

is this typical behavior? ive read that the tortoise should eat its body size per day, and she has never come close. she also goes to areas of the house that are in the low 60's and sleeps forever there, which i dont think is normal. i have had her for over a year now and she has been acting like this ever since. i hope some one could give me some advice on what to do.

Very Respectfully,
NavyDT

 

[coreyc]

I think she is cold down on floor level is colder then five feet up.Do you have a temp gun that you could shoot the floor an see what the temp is?

 

[jeffbens0n]

My first recommendation is to take her to a vet if she has not already been, but other than that it just sounds to me like she may be traumatized from her previous life. Not used to proper care or attention, so all she wants to do is hide. She does need to keep warm though, and I wouldn't suggest giving her the run of your apartment. Your table doesn't sound to bad...was she in there for a while? If not she may just need more time to get used to it. Also make sure you provide her with a couple secure hides within the table so she can feel safe when she needs to. As far as being outside, she probably doesn't feel secure either so just wanted to hide, but she may have been grazing when you didn't see. Being outside is best for her when the weather permits, but other than that, just keep her warm, hydrated, and fed a fresh varied diet and I think she will come around assuming there is nothing medically wrong with her. Good luck!

 

[NavyDT]

i will have to check the floor temps once i get a temp gun. but if she is cold wolnt she move to the light where its warm? that was what i was hoping for with the floor thing, that if she had run of the entire place she could do and manage herself where ever she is comforatable, i just dont want her to kill herself.

i got her last april, i built the tort table when i got her and she was running circles around it until mid may when i let her be free in the back yard. once about mid september hit is when i brought her inside. she was on the tort table until the 2nd of january, when i decied that her feet and scales on her arms were getting so bad i had to do somthing. thats when i let her on the floor. her hides on the table were pretty secure, im not really sure what else i could have done.

thank you guys for replying to this thread.

 

[jeffbens0n]

Does she eat well when fed greens indoors? Does she seem fairly comfortable around you or is she constantly pulling into her shell when you are around?

And she doesn't look like she is 20 years old, I would guess closer to 10, but anything is possible and the horrific conditions she was in when you rescued her may have stunted her growth.

 

[NavyDT]

she will eat the greens if i provide them, but i read i was supposed to be feeding her 85% hay and grasses so i started limiting her access to grees but she has access to hey 24/7.

if i come up to her or if she is walking around on the floor doing tortoise things, and i move she will stop, but she usually will not pull in. if i pick her up she will pull in but after a few mins she will relax and i can pet her head some times. but if i stay pretty still, she will just continue to do tortoise stuff. she is alot more relaxed i think now than before, but this could just be me putting emotion into reactions that have no emotion.

but like i was saying before, she spends 90% of her time hiding in the house somewhere.

 

[jeffbens0n]

I would guess that she doesn't eat much of the hay. It is an acquired taste and most tortoises take a while to get used to it. What I would suggest doing is keep feeding her the greens daily, but chop up and sprinkle some hay over the wet greens to get her to eat a little of the hay and get used to the taste.

 

[Yvonne G]

I don't think its ever a good idea to allow a tortoise free run of the house. In particular, YOUR tortoise needs to be kept warm so that you can get rid of the shell rot.

Did you have hiding places in the tort table?

She's on the small side, but judging from the growth spurts on the carapace, I can see where she might be 20 years old. And living for 20 years in the basement with hardly any human contact, she's a pretty wild animal and not used to people. My leopards freeze when they see me too. Some leopards are just that way. But when I'm not around and they feel safe, they wander their pen and graze.

My leopards don't care much for hay either. They eat a lot of grass and broad-leaf weeds. During the winter, when its too cold for them to go out and graze, I provide them with dark, leafy greens to eat. And occasionally zucchini and yellow squash.

What did the previous owner say they fed her?

 

[Greg T]

There's a good chance she will never eat hay, like others have said. Stick with greens and mazuri and you'll be fine.

When mine are outside (which is almost constantly now it has warmed up again) they will roam early in the morning to eat, then sit and hide for most of the afternoon, then find a place to sleep. So your outside activity doesn't sound far off the norm.

It will take time to get used to you being around, especially after such a lousy life previously. Make sure there is a good hiding place on the tort table because they will want to feel safe in there.

Good luck!

 

[NavyDT]

i had 2 different hides on my tort table, and she would spend very little time in them. most times i just saw her making circle after circle around her tort table. the reason i decided to go away from the table was because she wore the scaled down on her arms and feet to nothing. they were to the point where it was starting to chafe. since i took her off the table her arms and feet are completely healed.

the people who had her before me told me she ate lettuce... but to be honest it was taking everything i could not to punch the bastard in the face, so i really didn't pay much attention too him. i know im not an expert of tortoises but its obvious when an animal has been neglected.

im 100% sure she does not have active shell rot any more, i think this now is just a matter of the old dry dead bone that was rotting is now beginning to break off. its hard to show on photos but its very easy to tell the line between the old bone that died, and the new stuff growing around the dead bone. my only concern now is she gets the appropriate diet.

i will try moving her back on her tort table and feeding her large leafy greens untill it warms up enough for me to place her out side again.

thanks again for everythone to take the time to answer my questions.
Very Respectfully,
NavyDT

 

[Balboa]

I don't want to pretend to be an expert, just wanna brainstorm "outloud" with you, I think you're getting some great advice.

Normally, the idea that they will see to their own needs, and go to the warm spot is a good one. Trouble comes when an animal is sick, and/or as in the case of yours she has lived most her life in conditions that didn't allow her to see to her own needs. She doesn't know what she needs anymore, make sense? It could take some time for her to re-train healthier behaviors.

Some torts are pacers. In a way this is a good thing. It shows that despite it all she still has the energy to be active.

To subdue this some you may try adding more "obstacles" in her table. Not knowing how you had it stocked/decorated this may be moot, but you could try some plants and line of sight barriers. This both makes the table seem bigger to them than it really is and increases their feeling of security.

Hope some of this helps. Good luck.

 

[Neal]

I don't recomend that you let the tortoise continue to have free run of your apartment, I understand why you did, but it sounds like your table set up was a lot more ideal as far as temperatures go. If you put her back on there, you might consider placing some fake plants all around the walls, that could discourage her from rubbing against them and wearing down the scales on her legs. Once it gets warm enough, I think keeping her outside will do a lot of good, even if you don't see her grazing much. It sounds like she had a pretty rough upbringing, I don't blame her for wanting to hide all day. I'm glad to see you are concerned for her.

 

[NavyDT]

hehe im in the process of ressurecting the tort table right now, i am going to find some durable fake plants to put around the edge, and also plant some clover and grass in one area. this might keep her a little more busy. will also start mixing the greens and they hay together and see if she will start eating those.

its interesting that ive had her over a year, and besides the infected areas of her shell starting to get better she really hasnt changed much

thank you all for caring so much and giving me such great advice.

 

[Yvonne G]

Her behavior may not ever change. Some of them (leopards) are just like that. Do you think they were feeding her a lot of ice burg lettuce? If yes, here's a tip for changing her over:

Chop up some ice burg lettuce (or whatever she was used to eating) into small pieces. Really small pieces. A nice big handful. then chop up some of the good greens like endive or escarole or even spring mix, but not very much. Just about a quarter of what the pile of ice burg looks like. Mix it all together well. If she eats this, then the next day do the same thing, but a little less lettuce and a little more good greens. If she stops eating one day, then back up and use less of the good stuff. It may take a long time, but eventually you can wean her off the lettuce. Took me over a year to get one of my Manouria on a good diet. So don't lose hope. It can be done.

 

[Badgemash]

I don't really have any advice beyond what's already been posted, but I commend you for caring for her. It's probably going to take a very long time (if ever) to overcame all of the damage that has been done to her, but at least now she has a good home and can look forward to a better life.

-Devon