Brumation/burrow questions

[MinjaKoa]

Hello everyone! Thank you for being so awesome and having a place like this to ask questions, share, and bounce ideas off each other. I have a couple questions. This is our current burrow set up, which I had to stack more brick because it is unfortunately facing SE in Tucson AZ. The highest temp even in 100+ was 89 degrees farenheit with the extra shade and he loves it. He has always loved that corner even when it wasnt adequate enough temp wise.
In the picture I have 3 stacked bricks on the left. I was thinking of creating a wall that is only to the height of the roof and tapers down to ground level in order to help keep the dirt up for insulation And during monsoon season. It would also provided more shade from the afternoon sun before the burrow gets shaded by our house (that was when it hit 89 and only for 1 hour). I was wondering if creating this wall and extra shade might make temperatures get too low in the winter? Last winter, we had several days that got below freezing, but that is very rare. I was also wondering if I plant desert plants that don't need much water at all that he could graze on too if the water might help the dirt not get too cold and help further insulate his burrow during brumation? Ive always heard to water plants right before a freeze because it would help them survive. (Also, the entire corner is sloped down away from the entire burrow so even if it gets watered outside the burrow the water drains away from the burrow. I tested this before the tortoise could use it due to our heavy monsoon rains). If this is a no, how could I help keep temps adequate for brumation outside? The lowest temp I have noticed was 74 when it was in the 60s outside. Thank you so much!

 

[wellington]

I know nothing about brumating a tortoise and for sure not in AZ.
Maybe @Tom can help
Also maybe @Neal who does live in AZ.

 

[Tom]

Hello everyone! Thank you for being so awesome and having a place like this to ask questions, share, and bounce ideas off each other. I have a couple questions. This is our current burrow set up, which I had to stack more brick because it is unfortunately facing SE in Tucson AZ. The highest temp even in 100+ was 89 degrees farenheit with the extra shade and he loves it. He has always loved that corner even when it wasnt adequate enough temp wise.
In the picture I have 3 stacked bricks on the left. I was thinking of creating a wall that is only to the height of the roof and tapers down to ground level in order to help keep the dirt up for insulation And during monsoon season. It would also provided more shade from the afternoon sun before the burrow gets shaded by our house (that was when it hit 89 and only for 1 hour). I was wondering if creating this wall and extra shade might make temperatures get too low in the winter? Last winter, we had several days that got below freezing, but that is very rare. I was also wondering if I plant desert plants that don't need much water at all that he could graze on too if the water might help the dirt not get too cold and help further insulate his burrow during brumation? Ive always heard to water plants right before a freeze because it would help them survive. (Also, the entire corner is sloped down away from the entire burrow so even if it gets watered outside the burrow the water drains away from the burrow. I tested this before the tortoise could use it due to our heavy monsoon rains). If this is a no, how could I help keep temps adequate for brumation outside? The lowest temp I have noticed was 74 when it was in the 60s outside. Thank you so much!View attachment 362641View attachment 362642

Brumating tortoises in outdoor burrows usually results in the death of the tortoise. Too many things can and do go wrong. Flooding, collapse, rats, ants, temperature extremes etc...

Everyone seems to worry about the tortoises getting too cold, but they is unlikely where you are. Your problem will be the tortoise being too warm too much of the time. Same problem I have here. 80 degree days in January...

Our yards and our shallow little burrows do not simulate what happens in the wild. In the wild they go deep underground and the temperatures are very consistent day to day, regardless of what is happening at the surface.

Your burrow is great for summer time, but you need a means of controlling the temperatures in Spring and Fall. I explain how to do that here:

The Best Way To Raise Any Temperate Species Of Tortoise

I chose the title of this care sheet very carefully. Are there other ways to raise babies and care for adults? Yes. Yes there are, but those ways are not as good. What follows is the BEST way, according to 30 years of research and experimentation with hundreds of babies of many species. What is...

tortoiseforum.org

More info on the actual brumation here:

Tom's Brumation Thread

Every fall we get bombarded here on the forum with all sorts of questions and problems regarding hibernation and tortoises "slowing down" for winter. The purpose of this thread is to talk about all aspects of this subject, to dispel some of the myths and mysteries, and give a "how to" list of...

tortoiseforum.org

 

[MinjaKoa]

Brumating tortoises in outdoor burrows usually results in the death of the tortoise. Too many things can and do go wrong. Flooding, collapse, rats, ants, temperature extremes etc...

Everyone seems to worry about the tortoises getting too cold, but they is unlikely where you are. Your problem will be the tortoise being too warm too much of the time. Same problem I have here. 80 degree days in January...

Our yards and our shallow little burrows do not simulate what happens in the wild. In the wild they go deep underground and the temperatures are very consistent day to day, regardless of what is happening at the surface.

Your burrow is great for summer time, but you need a means of controlling the temperatures in Spring and Fall. I explain how to do that here:

The Best Way To Raise Any Temperate Species Of Tortoise

I chose the title of this care sheet very carefully. Are there other ways to raise babies and care for adults? Yes. Yes there are, but those ways are not as good. What follows is the BEST way, according to 30 years of research and experimentation with hundreds of babies of many species. What is...

tortoiseforum.org

More info on the actual brumation here:

Tom's Brumation Thread

Every fall we get bombarded here on the forum with all sorts of questions and problems regarding hibernation and tortoises "slowing down" for winter. The purpose of this thread is to talk about all aspects of this subject, to dispel some of the myths and mysteries, and give a "how to" list of...

tortoiseforum.org

Thank you so much! Our exotic vet told me that he was fine to brumate in the burrow I made and to just check on him at least once a month. She made it sound like I had no issues and it seemed wrong to me (we took him for check up prior to brumation and follow up on his now healed injury to his shell). I'll definitely look through what you attached. Also, curious you're thoughts on building that wall that I mention in original post and planting desert plants which would provide more shade in the summer? I get it wouldn't get too cold even in below freezing now (if i can figure out a way to allow him to use it in the winter), but want to make sure I am not missing anything else that I should also be thinking about before building it. Thank you!

 

[Tom]

Thank you so much! Our exotic vet told me that he was fine to brumate in the burrow I made and to just check on him at least once a month. She made it sound like I had no issues and it seemed wrong to me (we took him for check up prior to brumation and follow up on his now healed injury to his shell). I'll definitely look through what you attached. Also, curious you're thoughts on building that wall that I mention in original post and planting desert plants which would provide more shade in the summer? I get it wouldn't get too cold even in below freezing now (if i can figure out a way to allow him to use it in the winter), but want to make sure I am not missing anything else that I should also be thinking about before building it. Thank you!

More tortoise plants and more shade is always a good thing in hot weather. Plant a fruitless mulberry tree. Lots of shade in summer and full sun in winter when the leaves drop off. I think lavatera will do well out there too.

 

[MinjaKoa]

More tortoise plants and more shade is always a good thing in hot weather. Plant a fruitless mulberry tree. Lots of shade in summer and full sun in winter when the leaves drop off. I think lavatera will do well out there too.

Thank you again! We have a massive mesquite that gives a ton of shade from about 10a to 2p and then has a gap in the branches from about 2p to 3p so I was going to go to one of our native nurseries and get a bush that is tortoise friendly and more grass that he can munch on toward the bottom. His favorite so far, and mine too, is blue grama (boutelua gracilis).