Brumation Decision

[MethodAgent]

Hi everyone,

We have a russian tortoise that is outside 24/7. She has the run of the backyard. Normally she disappears in Late September/Early October and we see her again in February. In 2019 we redid our backyard and there is a lot more rock than dirt. I made a run for her and she has a spot where she can come and go from the run as she pleases. She often travels around the perimeter of our yard which has trees and bushes and then comes back here or in another spot at night to rest.

My concern is normally she disappears to brumate, I literally have no idea where she goes off to. However, this time she is in her little cave. My concern is if this is to pen for her to brumate successfully. I moved her log closer to the cave opening to provide a little more cover and piled up some wood chips for her to burrow into. I am not used to seeing her out like this during this time. She has not been out of the cave in a couple weeks, but I occasionally see she has moved around or hear scraping.

I guess my question is if I should leave her be, or pull her out and brumate her in a plastic bin in our garage (I did this one year during construction). My gut tells me to leave her be and she will come out if she needs something.....

 

[wellington]

I don't brumate my Russian. @Tom might be able to help you.
I would think she isn't covered enough to safely brumate.
See what Tom and others that are experienced say.

 

[mark1]

i've hibernated box turtles in as small of an area in ohio where the average low is below 20 for 3 months , the average high is like 30 for a month ....... the only real problem with hibernating healthy turtles and tortoises is freezing , and i'd imagine predators for tortoises ......wet hibernacula is not a great situation for box turtles , i think worse for tortoises . i believe russian tortoises like box turtles have some freeze tolerance ...... does he have access to the natural ground in that hide ? what i'd do is dig down about 8 inches and break up the soil so he can dig into it easily if he feels the need , put your wood chips/leaves back just as they are ....i'd make sure it's not a wet spot .. i doubt your ground gets anywhere near freezing ...... i would suggest you find MarkW's post on difference between brumation and hibernation , as long as he doesn't freeze i'd say he'd be fine ........ make your tortoise a good spot and he'll use it , you need to know what a "good spot" entails . ........jmo

 

[MethodAgent]

i've hibernated box turtles in as small of an area in ohio where the average low is below 20 for 3 months , the average high is like 30 for a month ....... the only real problem with hibernating healthy turtles and tortoises is freezing , and i'd imagine predators for tortoises ......wet hibernacula is not a great situation for box turtles , i think worse for tortoises . i believe russian tortoises like box turtles have some freeze tolerance ...... does he have access to the natural ground in that hide ? what i'd do is dig down about 8 inches and break up the soil so he can dig into it easily if he feels the need , put your wood chips/leaves back just as they are ....i'd make sure it's not a wet spot .. i doubt your ground gets anywhere near freezing ...... i would suggest you find MarkW's post on difference between brumation and hibernation , as long as he doesn't freeze i'd say he'd be fine ........ make your tortoise a good spot and he'll use it , you need to know what a "good spot" entails . ........jmo

Thanks! We are in Southern California, so the lowest it would get here at night right now is in the 50s. I will try breaking up the dirt.

 

[Tom]

Hi everyone,

We have a russian tortoise that is outside 24/7. She has the run of the backyard. Normally she disappears in Late September/Early October and we see her again in February. In 2019 we redid our backyard and there is a lot more rock than dirt. I made a run for her and she has a spot where she can come and go from the run as she pleases. She often travels around the perimeter of our yard which has trees and bushes and then comes back here or in another spot at night to rest.

My concern is normally she disappears to brumate, I literally have no idea where she goes off to. However, this time she is in her little cave. My concern is if this is to pen for her to brumate successfully. I moved her log closer to the cave opening to provide a little more cover and piled up some wood chips for her to burrow into. I am not used to seeing her out like this during this time. She has not been out of the cave in a couple weeks, but I occasionally see she has moved around or hear scraping.

I guess my question is if I should leave her be, or pull her out and brumate her in a plastic bin in our garage (I did this one year during construction). My gut tells me to leave her be and she will come out if she needs something.....



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You are lucky your tortoise is still alive. It is too warm, and too inconsistent here to brumate them outside on their own. Many of them come up in those 80-90 degree January warm spells we get, eat, and then die when it gets cold again. Both of these threads will help you understand what to do, and questions are welcome.

The Best Way To Raise Any Temperate Species Of Tortoise

I chose the title of this care sheet very carefully. Are there other ways to raise babies and care for adults? Yes. Yes there are, but those ways are not as good. What follows is the BEST way, according to 30 years of research and experimentation with hundreds of babies of many species. What is...

tortoiseforum.org

Scroll down to post #19 for the info you need:

Looking for an RT Hibernation "Mentor"

In this thread, @Tom mentioned seeking out a "mentor" who has experience in successfully hibernating Russian tortoises. So I am looking for you! Or any ideas of potential helpful peeps... Thanks! :) A little background: My boyfriend and I are interested in hibernating Steve, our male Russian...

tortoiseforum.org

 

[MethodAgent]

Thanks Tom.

You are lucky your tortoise is still alive. It is too warm, and too inconsistent here to brumate them outside on their own. Many of them come up in those 80-90 degree January warm spells we get, eat, and then die when it gets cold again. Both of these threads will help you understand what to do, and questions are welcome.

The Best Way To Raise Any Temperate Species Of Tortoise

I chose the title of this care sheet very carefully. Are there other ways to raise babies and care for adults? Yes. Yes there are, but those ways are not as good. What follows is the BEST way, according to 30 years of research and experimentation with hundreds of babies of many species. What is...

tortoiseforum.org

Scroll down to post #19 for the info you need:

Looking for an RT Hibernation "Mentor"

In this thread, @Tom mentioned seeking out a "mentor" who has experience in successfully hibernating Russian tortoises. So I am looking for you! Or any ideas of potential helpful peeps... Thanks! :) A little background: My boyfriend and I are interested in hibernating Steve, our male Russian...

tortoiseforum.org

Thanks Tom. I appreciate the links you provided and the detailed info. This RT came with our house and has been living outside here for about 7 years. We bought the house 3 years ago. Is it entirely possible that this turtle has acclimated to this habitat which is why we have been so lucky it has not died?

Given we are in Southern California, it seems that the only way it would remain consistently cold enough to hibernate is if I do it for her. There are only a couple months out of the year where it get's down into the high 40's and only at night.

 

[Tom]

Thanks Tom.

Thanks Tom. I appreciate the links you provided and the detailed info. This RT came with our house and has been living outside here for about 7 years. We bought the house 3 years ago. Is it entirely possible that this turtle has acclimated to this habitat which is why we have been so lucky it has not died?

Given we are in Southern California, it seems that the only way it would remain consistently cold enough to hibernate is if I do it for her. There are only a couple months out of the year where it get's down into the high 40's and only at night.

Yes. That is the problem with our SoCal climate. We get some cold winter nights, and a few cooler dreary days, but then the next week it will be 85 and sunny in January, and then cold again the week after that. And then we always have a week long cold spell in May, long after the springtime warm up.

This is why it is best to hibernate them under controlled indoor conditions, and to have an insulated outdoor box that you can control the temperature in. Some of them manage to survive just living outside for a while, but that is not good. Eventually most of them die that way.
Them: "I used to have a tortoise in my back yard."
Me: "Oh really. What happened to it?"
Them: "Oh it died."
Me: "Why did it die? What happened?"
Them: " Oh we just found it dead one day..."

 

[RosemaryDW]

Welcome from another Orange County owner. We are in South county and it while it is relatively dry here it’s nowhere near as dry as where she’s from. Tortoises aren’t mammals; they can’t acclimate. Your tortoise evolved to live in an extremely dry environment with extreme temperatures year round, the end. Ours did disappear on us the first year while we were looking for her owners (we found her on the street) So we brumate in a fridge now; less stressful for me personally. And it’s been the right choice for us; her preferred spot flooded repeatedly in heavy rains her third winter with us.

Our reptile vet kept Russians in Anaheim growing up (Corona now) and finds they and desert tortoises do just fine overwintering so long as they have a warm, dry spot. Ours is like yours; she was wild caught and is simply never going to stay up after the days get shorter. Thus the fridge.

Russians are tough but literally no one who “identified” our tortoise when we posted a lost and found could tell us anything about theirs. “I think it might be lost; I didn’t see it this year.” “There were three when we got this house but now I’m not sure.” “My large dogs were guarding him all the time but I guess a raccoon got him.”

You think it might be lost? MIGHT? In that case I think she might be better off staying with me. Fortunately for me no one had any identifying info either; the number of escaped/disappeared Russians in my neighborhood every year is surprising. The number of escaped everything turtle is surprising, or it was when I was a new owner.

I can see you are a thoughtful owner and deciding how and whether to brumate is a hard decision. If you are going to keep her outside at least get her a heated spot or find a way to let her dig down underground; please don’t leave her out like that.