Brumation issues

[Mark C]

Hi everyone
Our 3 year old marginated tortoise has had a pretty tough first brumation with us in the north of England. We will in future use the fridge method but this is our current issue. We sent him into brumation on November 19 as the temperature outside became a steady 3-8C so we put him in the double box method in the shed with appropriate insulation. In early December things changed markedly as the UK was plunged into a sharp cold snap with temperature at night dropping to -7C and by day around 0-4C. We added extra protection during this time but after ten days with consistently low temperature we felt we had no choice but to bring him inside briefly. He was on the kitchen flag floor in his box in a cool corner for about five days and didn't appear to wake except on day when we checked for signs of life he had warmed up and made a small movement. With the temperature outdoors going back to 3-7C we put him back in the shed for the last week. However it's getting mild this week between 8-10C and we think he's moved in his box. Should we therefore abandon all attempts to brumate after 37 days and over winter indoors with proper uva uvb and heat and accept it's not going to work this time. We're concerned he may dehydrate having been disturbed. Please advise.

Mark

 

[Tom]

Hi everyone
Our 3 year old marginated tortoise has had a pretty tough first brumation with us in the north of England. We will in future use the fridge method but this is our current issue. We sent him into brumation on November 19 as the temperature outside became a steady 3-8C so we put him in the double box method in the shed with appropriate insulation. In early December things changed markedly as the UK was plunged into a sharp cold snap with temperature at night dropping to -7C and by day around 0-4C. We added extra protection during this time but after ten days with consistently low temperature we felt we had no choice but to bring him inside briefly. He was on the kitchen flag floor in his box in a cool corner for about five days and didn't appear to wake except on day when we checked for signs of life he had warmed up and made a small movement. With the temperature outdoors going back to 3-7C we put him back in the shed for the last week. However it's getting mild this week between 8-10C and we think he's moved in his box. Should we therefore abandon all attempts to brumate after 37 days and over winter indoors with proper uva uvb and heat and accept it's not going to work this time. We're concerned he may dehydrate having been disturbed. Please advise.

Mark

What has the temperature been inside the hibernacula where the tortoise actually is. Outside temps don't matter much and tend to fluctuate a lot. 8-10 is not bad for a marginated tortoise and may still be fine.

Why would disturbing the tortoise bring about concerns of dehydration? Did it empty its bladder at some point?

I don't see any reason to abandon brumation from what you've told us, but if it would make you feel better, I think it would be fine to warm him up and resume normal activity at this point too.

 

[Mark C]

What has the temperature been inside the hibernacula where the tortoise actually is. Outside temps don't matter much and tend to fluctuate a lot. 8-10 is not bad for a marginated tortoise and may still be fine.

Why would disturbing the tortoise bring about concerns of dehydration? Did it empty its bladder at some point?

I don't see any reason to abandon brumation from what you've told us, but if it would make you feel better, I think it would be fine to warm him up and resume normal activity at this point too.

Thanks Tom. Inside it's been just about okay between 2-9C by day but not sure about night time although we added layers of warmth and extra padding around the boxes during the very cold snap and so he's clearly coped with the temperature fluctuations thus far. We panicked a bit as it was so persistently cold for ten days and the forecast wasn't any better for 3-4 days in fact one night it plummeted to-10C so we were glad we brought him back in before that. I think this week the outdoors temperature is going to be between 8-12C so we'll keep an eye on him. The week after temperature forecast is to drop between 3-7C with the occasional dip to 0-2C at night so not too bad. Our preference is to ideally let him brumate until about the second or third week of January if we can which means he's had around 55-60 days or 8-9 weeks and if it turns mild then to warm him up indoors and rehydrate and feed again starting with tomato and selected greens eg dandelion.

 

[Tom]

Thanks Tom. Inside it's been just about okay between 2-9C by day but not sure about night time although we added layers of warmth and extra padding around the boxes during the very cold snap and so he's clearly coped with the temperature fluctuations thus far. We panicked a bit as it was so persistently cold for ten days and the forecast wasn't any better for 3-4 days in fact one night it plummeted to-10C so we were glad we brought him back in before that. I think this week the outdoors temperature is going to be between 8-12C so we'll keep an eye on him. The week after temperature forecast is to drop between 3-7C with the occasional dip to 0-2C at night so not too bad. Our preference is to ideally let him brumate until about the second or third week of January if we can which means he's had around 55-60 days or 8-9 weeks and if it turns mild then to warm him up indoors and rehydrate and feed again starting with tomato and selected greens eg dandelion.

All the extra layers do not warm your tortoise. Layers work for mammals because we are generating heat. The layers then hold in that heat. For a cold blooded reptile, no heat is being generated. The layers may slow the temperature change a bit, but they will not keep your tortoise warmer than ambient.

Do you have a thermometer probe or a thermometer in the box with the tortoise? That is where you need to watch. -10C outside might be fine inside the building and with all the insulation layers, or it might be getting too cold. Only thermometers can tell us. I hibernate in my well insulated outdoor boxes for some species, and I get a pretty steady average of the day time highs and night time lows. So 30F degree nights with 60G degree days gives me a box temperature around 45F with little variation. Too warm for a horsfield, but just right for a Chersina, desert tortoise, or a marginated.