Brumation?

Dov

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My 2/3 year female russian tortoise has become less active over the last 3 days. She comes out of her hide every morning and nibbles a bit at her food then goes to the far corner of the enclosure near the basking light and kinda tries to dig herself in. She stays there basically the whole day and in the evening she finishes most of the food left and goes into her hide. I am feeding her kale, romaine lettuce, rockets, and carrots and sometimes dandilion leaves and plantain if I can still find some growing outside(this is the best I can do until weather gets a bit warmer and I start growing my own food) the temp in the enclosure is 100F under basking spot, 85F around the basking spot and the coolest spot is 75. It never drops below 70 unless its a cold night but she always has heating mat on during the night. She is still pooping and peeing. Could this just be burmation or something else?

Thanks

Forgot to mention when she is in the corner of the enclosure she is usually awake for most of the time and barely sleeps.
 

wellington

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She? 2-3 years old is a bit young to know for sure the sex, sounds pretty normal to me for an indoor Russian and in winter
Try to add more variety of grocery greens though to the diet.
 

Tom

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My 2/3 year female russian tortoise has become less active over the last 3 days. She comes out of her hide every morning and nibbles a bit at her food then goes to the far corner of the enclosure near the basking light and kinda tries to dig herself in. She stays there basically the whole day and in the evening she finishes most of the food left and goes into her hide. I am feeding her kale, romaine lettuce, rockets, and carrots and sometimes dandilion leaves and plantain if I can still find some growing outside(this is the best I can do until weather gets a bit warmer and I start growing my own food) the temp in the enclosure is 100F under basking spot, 85F around the basking spot and the coolest spot is 75. It never drops below 70 unless its a cold night but she always has heating mat on during the night. She is still pooping and peeing. Could this just be burmation or something else?

Thanks

Forgot to mention when she is in the corner of the enclosure she is usually awake for most of the time and barely sleeps.
All sounds very normal for a tortoise in winter to me too.
 

Dov

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She? 2-3 years old is a bit young to know for sure the sex, sounds pretty normal to me for an indoor Russian and in winter
Try to add more variety of grocery greens though to the diet.
Hmm. It was trying to mate with a rock a couple of days. I thought it was just a dominant female. The tail is short and stubby. The grocery stores here don't really have any greens suitable for a tortoise other than the kale rockets and spring mixes. I try get weeds from outside as much as possible and will try to start growing my own soon.
 

Tom

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Hmm. It was trying to mate with a rock a couple of days. I thought it was just a dominant female. The tail is short and stubby. The grocery stores here don't really have any greens suitable for a tortoise other than the kale rockets and spring mixes. I try get weeds from outside as much as possible and will try to start growing my own soon.
They all look female as juveniles. Only when they get closer to maturity and the male hormones begin to flow do they begin to show the typical secondary sexual characteristics.
 

Dov

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They all look female as juveniles. Only when they get closer to maturity and the male hormones begin to flow do they begin to show the typical secondary sexual characteristics.
Is there any way at all to tell if its male or female? I was hoping to get a male after Christmas but I might have to hold off. I don't want to accidently have 2 males.
 

Maggie3fan

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You don't want a male and a female because Russian males are very aggressive and he'll bite her legs and head butt her and simply beat her into submission, then she's a victim to abuse. I know this because I recently received 3 Russians to foster to help a friend...he kept them all together...2 males and a female...I kept moving them around to see what combination would work so everybody got food and no blood was spilled. I ended up putting each tortoise alone in his own enclosure. The big female had been bullying a very little male...so he's by himself now and in 2 months he has visibly grown., and his personality has changed so much that I am hoping they let me keep him. Look at the size difference. My friend said they were both the same size when he put them together. Now he's half her size...that is the result of bullying
100_1000.JPG
 

Dov

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You don't want a male and a female because Russian males are very aggressive and he'll bite her legs and head butt her and simply beat her into submission, then she's a victim to abuse. I know this because I recently received 3 Russians to foster to help a friend...he kept them all together...2 males and a female...I kept moving them around to see what combination would work so everybody got food and no blood was spilled. I ended up putting each tortoise alone in his own enclosure. The big female had been bullying a very little male...so he's by himself now and in 2 months he has visibly grown., and his personality has changed so much that I am hoping they let me keep him. Look at the size difference. My friend said they were both the same size when he put them together. Now he's half her size...that is the result of bullying
View attachment 337032
My female is about 2 years old. I was hoping to get a male about the same age and size. Maybe if they grew up together from a younger age they wouldn't be that aggresive? I was also thinking of getting another female so the male wasn't picking on the same one constantly. You see I want to try breed them and get some eggs. I also thought that males were only aggressive during breeding months?
 

Yvonne G

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Breeding russians is fine, and to be encouraged. But it works better in a LARGE, well planted (so the females can get out of his sight) yard outside. Indoors they would all have to be kept in separate enclosures, only putting the male with the female under close supervision, then back into his own enclosure. When I first got a group of russians, not knowing any better, I put them all together and went on my merry way, only to come back later to a couple bleeding females with no eyelids and missing leg scales.
 

Tom

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My female is about 2 years old. I was hoping to get a male about the same age and size. Maybe if they grew up together from a younger age they wouldn't be that aggresive? I was also thinking of getting another female so the male wasn't picking on the same one constantly. You see I want to try breed them and get some eggs. I also thought that males were only aggressive during breeding months?
I fully support breeding Russian tortoises and encourage it, but you've got some misconceptions here. Tortoises should never be housed in pairs. Its bad for both of them and neither the ages nor the sexes matter. Russian males AND females tend to be very scrappy and any sex can fight with any other sex anytime of year, and they frequently do. The best policy is to house each tort individually and put them together periodically for breeding in spring and fall. You can sometimes house one adult male with a few females in a large heavily planted outdoor enclosure with lots of sight barriers and hiding places. Sometimes even that doesn't work with this aggressive territorial species.

Once you find out what sex your current tortoise is, it would be great to get a group going with a male and two or three females. Quarantine the newcomers for at least 6 months, and then try breeding introductions. I hope you have much success! :)
 

Tom

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Look at the size difference. My friend said they were both the same size when he put them together. Now he's half her size...that is the result of bullying
Males are usually half the size/weight of females in this species. The bullying and fighting is obviously no good, but the size difference is normal.
 

Dov

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I fully support breeding Russian tortoises and encourage it, but you've got some misconceptions here. Tortoises should never be housed in pairs. Its bad for both of them and neither the ages nor the sexes matter. Russian males AND females tend to be very scrappy and any sex can fight with any other sex anytime of year, and they frequently do. The best policy is to house each tort individually and put them together periodically for breeding in spring and fall. You can sometimes house one adult male with a few females in a large heavily planted outdoor enclosure with lots of sight barriers and hiding places. Sometimes even that doesn't work with this aggressive territorial species.

Once you find out what sex your current tortoise is, it would be great to get a group going with a male and two or three females. Quarantine the newcomers for at least 6 months, and then try breeding introductions. I hope you have much success! :)
Really appreciate all this information. I live in ireland so outdoor enclosure won't work. I'll have to wait till I have my own place and have a huge indoor enclosure. By that time I will hopefully have more knowledge on breeding and looking after tortoises. Thanks again for the information and have a nice day?
 

Dov

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Breeding russians is fine, and to be encouraged. But it works better in a LARGE, well planted (so the females can get out of his sight) yard outside. Indoors they would all have to be kept in separate enclosures, only putting the male with the female under close supervision, then back into his own enclosure. When I first got a group of russians, not knowing any better, I put them all together and went on my merry way, only to come back later to a couple bleeding females with no eyelids and missing leg scales.
I knew they were aggressive but I didn't think they were that aggressive. Anyway I'll prob just focus on my one tortoise for now and maybe in the future I'll try breed them. Thank you for the information?
 

Tom

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Really appreciate all this information. I live in ireland so outdoor enclosure won't work. I'll have to wait till I have my own place and have a huge indoor enclosure. By that time I will hopefully have more knowledge on breeding and looking after tortoises. Thanks again for the information and have a nice day?
There used to be a member here that lived in NY. He couldn't keep them outside year round, so he kept his breeding groups in indoor 4x8 foot enclosure. This worked for him, but most people would advise you to go bigger.

Here is what Russians sometimes do to each other:
 
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