Burrowing vs. Humid Hide

Astrid37

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My 13 week old Western Hermann's won't use her humid hide. All of the parameters of the viv are aligned with the care sheet (humidity 60-88% over the whole viv all of the time, temps 82-86 daytime and 74-80 nighttime, and basking peak temp of 92. Her humid hide is on the side that stays at least 80 all of the time.

During the day, she is staying on the side of the viv that is 86 and 74 at night and burrowing completely into the substrate (orchid bark and coco coir) onto that 74F side at night. Since she is completely burrowed into the substrate at night, and the substrate is damp, I figure that is like a humid hide in nature, so she's probably ok? Is 74F too cool for her to be burrowed in the damp substrate for 14 hours? (She puts herself to bed at 5:30pm regardless of the lights being on and wakes up about 8am regardless of how early the light comes on). I also give her warm soaks 6 days a week, she has a clean terracotta dish sunk into her substrate 24x7, and I mist her viv twice a day.

Should I take out the humid hide or leave it in there in case she starts using it eventually? Do I need to increase the nightime temperature on her burrowing side?

Many thanks!!
 

wellington

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Night time can drop to 60 with no problem. That might be why she is burrowing to get into a cooler night temp.
You can let her keep doing this or drop the temps lower at night and see if she will use the hide.
 

TisMary

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My 13 week old Western Hermann's won't use her humid hide. All of the parameters of the viv are aligned with the care sheet (humidity 60-88% over the whole viv all of the time, temps 82-86 daytime and 74-80 nighttime, and basking peak temp of 92. Her humid hide is on the side that stays at least 80 all of the time.

During the day, she is staying on the side of the viv that is 86 and 74 at night and burrowing completely into the substrate (orchid bark and coco coir) onto that 74F side at night. Since she is completely burrowed into the substrate at night, and the substrate is damp, I figure that is like a humid hide in nature, so she's probably ok? Is 74F too cool for her to be burrowed in the damp substrate for 14 hours? (She puts herself to bed at 5:30pm regardless of the lights being on and wakes up about 8am regardless of how early the light comes on). I also give her warm soaks 6 days a week, she has a clean terracotta dish sunk into her substrate 24x7, and I mist her viv twice a day.

Should I take out the humid hide or leave it in there in case she starts using it eventually? Do I need to increase the nightime temperature on her burrowing side?

Many thanks!!
Hi @Astrid37! One thing I've learned about baby Western Hermann's is that they sleep where they want, when they want, for as long as they want! Personally, I'd leave the humid hide in there because she could change her mind and start using it. I put moistened sphagnum moss in my baby's hide - how are you keeping up the humidity in yours?

As far as burrowing in, it seems a natural thing to do. Smidgen did that his first night with us. I couldn't find him and was afraid he somehow got out. Then logic took over and my DH calmed me down ("He's and inch and a half long and the sides are 18" tall with nothing near them - he didn't climb out!"). The next morning, he popped out and he was covered in substrate, but otherwise fine!

1630338794139.jpeg
 

Astrid37

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Hi @Astrid37! One thing I've learned about baby Western Hermann's is that they sleep where they want, when they want, for as long as they want! Personally, I'd leave the humid hide in there because she could change her mind and start using it. I put moistened sphagnum moss in my baby's hide - how are you keeping up the humidity in yours?

As far as burrowing in, it seems a natural thing to do. Smidgen did that his first night with us. I couldn't find him and was afraid he somehow got out. Then logic took over and my DH calmed me down ("He's and inch and a half long and the sides are 18" tall with nothing near them - he didn't climb out!"). The next morning, he popped out and he was covered in substrate, but otherwise fine!

View attachment 331992
Thanks for the advice! Very good to know! And thank you for the photo. Smidgen is adorable ?! I feel like Tillie has substrate stuck on her somewhere at any given point haha. Do you track Smidgen's weight? If so, is it normal for them to gain about one gram per day for a week and then not gain any weight the next week? Thank you again!
 

Tom

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My 13 week old Western Hermann's won't use her humid hide. All of the parameters of the viv are aligned with the care sheet (humidity 60-88% over the whole viv all of the time, temps 82-86 daytime and 74-80 nighttime, and basking peak temp of 92. Her humid hide is on the side that stays at least 80 all of the time.

During the day, she is staying on the side of the viv that is 86 and 74 at night and burrowing completely into the substrate (orchid bark and coco coir) onto that 74F side at night. Since she is completely burrowed into the substrate at night, and the substrate is damp, I figure that is like a humid hide in nature, so she's probably ok? Is 74F too cool for her to be burrowed in the damp substrate for 14 hours? (She puts herself to bed at 5:30pm regardless of the lights being on and wakes up about 8am regardless of how early the light comes on). I also give her warm soaks 6 days a week, she has a clean terracotta dish sunk into her substrate 24x7, and I mist her viv twice a day.

Should I take out the humid hide or leave it in there in case she starts using it eventually? Do I need to increase the nightime temperature on her burrowing side?

Many thanks!!
Everything you've described here sounds perfect. I wouldn't change anything.
 

TisMary

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Thanks for the advice! Very good to know! And thank you for the photo. Smidgen is adorable ?! I feel like Tillie has substrate stuck on her somewhere at any given point haha. Do you track Smidgen's weight? If so, is it normal for them to gain about one gram per day for a week and then not gain any weight the next week? Thank you again!
I'm not sure what the rate of growth should be for these guys. He weighed 10g when I first got him. He's clocked in at 20g for 3 weekly weighings since then. I have a postal scale that measures down to .01kg which still might not be sensitive enough to tell his weight at this point.

There is a ratio called Jackson Ratio specifically for Hermann's. Search TFO for various discussions on this. It offers a data point, which I find helpful.

P.S.my scale also goes up to 34 kg so I can weigh the dog, but he has trouble balancing all fours on the little surface! ?
 

Astrid37

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Virginia, USA
I'm not sure what the rate of growth should be for these guys. He weighed 10g when I first got him. He's clocked in at 20g for 3 weekly weighings since then. I have a postal scale that measures down to .01kg which still might not be sensitive enough to tell his weight at this point.

There is a ratio called Jackson Ratio specifically for Hermann's. Search TFO for various discussions on this. It offers a data point, which I find helpful.

P.S.my scale also goes up to 34 kg so I can weigh the dog, but he has trouble balancing all fours on the little surface! ?
Thanks so much for the info on your baby's growth rate so far and for the tip about the Jackson Ratio. That's nifty!!

I know what you mean about scales for all manner of family members. We have three large dogs, the biggest of which is 60 kilos, so I had to purchase an agricultural scale to weigh them ?. So I can also weigh sheep and goats in my basement. You know, like normal people.
 

Irie’s Mama

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Hi @Astrid37! One thing I've learned about baby Western Hermann's is that they sleep where they want, when they want, for as long as they want! Personally, I'd leave the humid hide in there because she could change her mind and start using it. I put moistened sphagnum moss in my baby's hide - how are you keeping up the humidity in yours?

As far as burrowing in, it seems a natural thing to do. Smidgen did that his first night with us. I couldn't find him and was afraid he somehow got out. Then logic took over and my DH calmed me down ("He's and inch and a half long and the sides are 18" tall with nothing near them - he didn't climb out!"). The next morning, he popped out and he was covered in substrate, but otherwise fine!

View attachment 331992
So funny and cute! My tortie now doing the same and I’m like thank god he’s just borrowing ?
 
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