Carapace Length vs Body Weight - is this true?

[stevenf625]

Book: Mediterranean Tortoises, by Brian Pursal, p55

Calculate the following ratio W/L^3
where
W = weight (grams)
L = carapace length (cm)

Resulting Value:
.21 to .23 = normal healthy adult
.20 = underweight and needs attention
.18 = seriously underweight
.15 = death occurs

My Dalmation tortiose that I've had for 2 weeks is
W = 315 gram
L = 12.7 cm

Ratio = .154 !!!!!!


Is this formula Legit?
Is my new tortoise in trouble?
He has not been eating much, but he has seemed alert and strong.

 

[Yvonne G]

I've never used any of those type measurements on my tortoises so I can't tell you if it's a good guide or not. I like to us a very scientific method - I hold the tortoise in my hand. If it feels like a rock, he's heavy enough. If it feels like a tortoise shell full of air, he's underweight.

What do you feed your tortoise?

 

[stevenf625]

I've never used any of those type measurements on my tortoises so I can't tell you if it's a good guide or not. I like to us a very scientific method - I hold the tortoise in my hand. If it feels like a rock, he's heavy enough. If it feels like a tortoise shell full of air, he's underweight.

What do you feed your tortoise?

He definitely feels on the light side - not like a heavy rock.
I've been giving him:

Hybiscus leaves
Hybiscus flower
Kiwi leaves
acorn squash
dandeliion leaves
romaine

He usually will eat the flowers, will eat much of the romaine, but doesn't eat much of anything else (does not like the dandelion leaves at all)

The breeder I got him from said he fed him fed every other day a on a 'mix of spring mix greens, romaine, zucchini, yellow squash, dandelion, corn on the cob, zoo med tortoise diet"

I didn't think to weigh the tortoise when I first got him so I don't know how much weight loss has occurred while I've had him.

Any advice on how I can fatten him up?

 

[wellington]

Tortoises should be fed every day. In the wild, during the hot months for those that brumate, they would eat every day that food was available. Feed every day enough that some is left over. If none is left over feed a little more. If too much is left over, feed a little less.

 

[stevenf625]

Tortoises should be fed every day. In the wild, during the hot months for those that brumate, they would eat every day that food was available. Feed every day enough that some is left over. If none is left over feed a little more. If too much is left over, feed a little less.

Since I've had him he's never ate more than a single leaf of anything on any given day (has eaten multiple flowers though).
I'm going to try giving him exactly what he's been use to getting, including corn (which I'm not happy about).

Do you think this weight loss could have occured in the 2 weeks I've had him?
How fast can tortoises lose weight when they stop eating?

 

[JoesMum]

I think we need to see pictures of your enclosure and lighting and have details of the 4 important temperatures- warm side, cool side directly under the basking lamp and overnight minimum so we can see what's going on.

It sounds like your breeder gave you outdated care information I suggest you read these for best practice advice.
http://www.tortoiseforum.org/threads/beginner-mistakes.45180/
http://www.tortoiseforum.org/threads/sticky-hermanns-tortoise-care-sheet-updated.101410/
http://www.tortoiseforum.org/thread...or-other-herbivorous-tortoise-species.107734/

 

[JoesMum]

I also forgot to say that the ratio you describe is called the Jackson Ratio and it doesn't apply to tortoises under 500 grammes in weight.

Your tortoise is too small for it to be accurate.

 

[Kristoff]

I also forgot to say that the ratio you describe is called the Jackson Ratio and it doesn't apply to tortoises under 500 grammes in weight.

Your tortoise is too small for it to be accurate.

This is good information, @JoesMum. Thank you! I used this calculator (http://www.tortoise-protection-group.org.uk/site/171.asp) and was also confused about the results for one of my torts. Well, he's under 500g, so now it makes more sense

 

[Yvonne G]

He definitely feels on the light side - not like a heavy rock.
I've been giving him:

Hybiscus leaves
Hybiscus flower
Kiwi leaves
acorn squash
dandeliion leaves
romaine

He usually will eat the flowers, will eat much of the romaine, but doesn't eat much of anything else (does not like the dandelion leaves at all)

The breeder I got him from said he fed him fed every other day a on a 'mix of spring mix greens, romaine, zucchini, yellow squash, dandelion, corn on the cob, zoo med tortoise diet"

I didn't think to weigh the tortoise when I first got him so I don't know how much weight loss has occurred while I've had him.

Any advice on how I can fatten him up?

Go back to feeding him what the breeder fed him. Quite often tortoises don't recognize 'new' foods as something they can eat.

 

[Kapidolo Farms]

Tortoises should be fed every day. In the wild, during the hot months for those that brumate, they would eat every day that food was available. Feed every day enough that some is left over. If none is left over feed a little more. If too much is left over, feed a little less.

This is the 'formula' that should be used. When species proper food offerings are made - this is as good a formula as you can get. It is simple and true.

Mazuri has an instruction on their bag - feed 2-5% body weight (or some such) a day. Well that's just silly, if a tortoise is underweight, more available is better. Water and hydration is the other nutrient that always ought to be foremost in your mind for tortoise weight. It can take many long soaks for a tortoise to re-hydrate IF it is low weight for lack of water.

Also consider that you may have measured the length in some way that was not done by the Pursal who made the formula. Measuring, even something as simple as carapace length is by no means standard.

Consider these as well... https://sites.google.com/site/tortoiselibrary/health-and-medical/healthy-weight-and-size

 

[wellington]

Since I've had him he's never ate more than a single leaf of anything on any given day (has eaten multiple flowers though).
I'm going to try giving him exactly what he's been use to getting, including corn (which I'm not happy about).

Do you think this weight loss could have occured in the 2 weeks I've had him?
How fast can tortoises lose weight when they stop eating?

I wouldn't feed the corn. However, when you do feed what the breeder has fed, mix in some of the things you were feeding too. Chop your foods up fine and sprinkle over what is was used to eating and spritz with water. This helps the chopped stuff to stick to the other foods, so in order to eat what he is used to eating, he will get some of the other stuff too. Then slowly, eliminate any of the bad stuff he might have been fed. Eventually he should get used to eating all the foods and you won't have to trick him with the chopping.

 

[stevenf625]

Thanks for the responses.
It is possible my carapace measurements are off. I'll double check and also change up the diet to more of what he's used to.

 

[JoesMum]

Thanks for the responses.
It is possible my carapace measurements are off. I'll double check and also change up the diet to more of what he's used to.

Here's how to measure the Straight Carapace Length of your tort
http://www.tlady.clara.net/measure.htm

 

[stevenf625]

This is good information, @JoesMum. Thank you! I used this calculator (http://www.tortoise-protection-group.org.uk/site/171.asp) and was also confused about the results for one of my torts. Well, he's under 500g, so now it makes more sense

How much does you 4.6" tortoise weigh??

I rechecked my measurements and my Dalmation is indeed 5", CL 315 grams

 

[Chanchara]

I also forgot to say that the ratio you describe is called the Jackson Ratio and it doesn't apply to tortoises under 500 grammes in weight.
Your tortoise is too small for it to be accurate.

In my opinion, it's not a very good explanation...

According to Jackson, weight, 500g, corresponds to a length of about 13 cm.

Now length - 12.5 cm, so the tort will soon reach 13 cm and should immediately become harder to 500 grams ...

PS: it is desirable to see the photo tortoise....

 

[Kristoff]

How much does you 4.6" tortoise weigh??

I rechecked my measurements and my Dalmation is indeed 5", CL 315 grams

He's 396 grams, "too heavy" according to the calculator.

 

[JoesMum]

You are using Straight Carapace Length measured like this?
http://www.tlady.clara.net/measure.htm

And are you actually weighing & measuring in grammes and centimetres or converting from ounces and inches?

 

[Kapidolo Farms]

Here's how to measure the Straight Carapace Length of your tort
http://www.tlady.clara.net/measure.htm

That's a a good link. Thanks.

 

[stevenf625]

You are using Straight Carapace Length measured like this?
http://www.tlady.clara.net/measure.htm

And are you actually weighing & measuring in grammes and centimetres or converting from ounces and inches?

I used a digital food scale that measures in grams. I measured carapace exactly the way your link describes.

 

[stevenf625]

In my opinion, it's not a very good explanation...

According to Jackson, weight, 500g, corresponds to a length of about 13 cm.

Now length - 12.5 cm, so the tort will soon reach 13 cm and should immediately become harder to 500 grams ...

PS: it is desirable to see the photo tortoise....

Photo. Sorry about quality. I took pics with my flip phone.