Chloramine danger...

ZEROPILOT

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This topic has come up more than once over at the CHAMELEON FORUM.
Chlorine and Chloramine in tap water.
Some keepers have reverse osmosis systems or fancy filtration systems or use bottled water for supplying drinking and misting water to their Chameleons...and now it has grown to other pets and people.
Chlorine leaves tap water. Chloramine does not.
Water conditioner drops remove both. But is it neccessary?
I've used water out of the tap for every animal I've ever kept.
Does chloramine present a danger in the low doses that are in tap water? Or should it always be removed or otherwise avoided?
(Here it is about 2.5 mg/L)
 

Sa Ga

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Yes, I very much wonder about this....
For me, "Safe for people=safe for tortie," isn't as comforting as I'd like.

As we all know. Tortie and human size, physiology, and needs are very diffr., so we should never assume this as a safety measure! Plus, many bad things can take time to kill an organism (think mal-nutrition in any animal or tobacco use in humans), or its effects are not truly known (did Tortie die at only 25 yrs old bc he got acutely sick somehow or was it due to the cumulative effects that a pellet food ingredient had from the many years of use? ).

Does anyone know of any studies that might look into safe levels of chemicals for torts (And who knows if it varies from species to species??? *sigh* Probably....)? Since tap water analyses can vary so much from location to location, it"d be nice to know parameters, not a blanket yay or nay.
 

wellington

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I have always had city of chicago water for tropical and marine fish, my lizards and rodents, dogs, cat, birds, tortoises etc and have never had a problem that I know of. My marine fish lived a very long time same with most of my animals. Their life expectancy or longer.
When I lived in Michigan had both city and well water. Never a problem there either and had lots of animals.
 

Sa Ga

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I do worry about my water bc it is insanely hard (stains my toilets with crust if not cleaned daily, has broken two showerheads bc they've gotten so irreparably clogged) and so heavily chlorinated it seriously smells like a pool (I do prefer that to the "lake water" version in the cities just north of us), but I worry if this could have any dire effects on a being so much smaller and perhaps of a lower tolerance to these levels over time.
 

Tom

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I agree that if the water is safe for humans to drink, brush their teeth in, and shower in, then it is safe for animals too. Chloramines are NOT safe for animals that live in water, breathe `water, or absorb water through their skin (amphibians). For all my fish tanks, I treat the water to remove chlorine, ammonia, and chloramines, and I also let the water circulate, aerate, outgas, and warm up for 24 hours before it goes into the tank.

A good test for this is the canary in the coal mine. Birds are very sensitive to any kind of chemical pollutant, especially airborne gasses, but also in their food or water. We use straight tap water here for our bird waters and also for mixing formula to hand feed babies. No trouble at all.

I also suspect that using tap water with chloramines might also offer some sanitation benefits in our enclosures and water bowls.
 

ZenHerper

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From the CDC (U.S. Centers for Disease Control):
(reptiles are included as susceptible fauna)

From the EPA (U.S. Environmental Protection Agency):
 

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I've begun adding chlorine and chloramine removing drops to both my MISTKING misting system and my overhead LITTLE DRIPPER systems for my Chameleons.
Not for the tortoises. They've been drinking and bathing in water from my hose for decades.
The Chameleons seem like much more fragile creatures.
Thanks.
 

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ZenHerper

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I wish there were a more standardized grammar in English. There is a comma (and a lack of a comma) that puts the scope of the CDC conclusions in some doubt, but I would guess that soft-skinned critters are at greater risk than ground-pounders.

My terrestrial lizard-and-python gang all lived an expected 15-20+ years on small town tap water.
 

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I wish there were a more standardized grammar in English. There is a comma (and a lack of a comma) that puts the scope of the CDC conclusions in some doubt, but I would guess that soft-skinned critters are at greater risk than ground-pounders.

My terrestrial lizard-and-python gang all lived an expected 15-20+ years on small town tap water.
There is also a question on if all Chameleons can absorb water through their skin.
 

Tom

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There is also a question on if all Chameleons can absorb water through their skin.
I never treated any of my chameleon water. Straight tap. I used to rehab other people's chameleons too, and brought several back from the brink of death with tap water. I'd be more concerned about the dechlorinating chemicals than the tap water.
 

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I never treated any of my chameleon water. Straight tap. I used to rehab other people's chameleons too, and brought several back from the brink of death with tap water. I'd be more concerned about the dechlorinating chemicals than the tap water.
Seems valid.
What's in the drops?
 

Tom

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Seems valid.
What's in the drops?
I just retrieved my big bottle of Amquel, and apparently they don't have to list the ingredients on the bottle. I'm kind of surprised about that. I thought everything had to list their ingredients.

It does say to allow treated water to sit for 24 hours after use and that in water that is not well aerated, it can reduce oxygen levels. Not an issue for me since I use a big rolling trash can with a powerhead in it to circulate my water change water, but it doesn't answer your question...
 

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I just retrieved my big bottle of Amquel, and apparently they don't have to list the ingredients on the bottle. I'm kind of surprised about that. I thought everything had to list their ingredients.

It does say to allow treated water to sit for 24 hours after use and that in water that is not well aerated, it can reduce oxygen levels. Not an issue for me since I use a big rolling trash can with a powerhead in it to circulate my water change water, but it doesn't answer your question...
I buy it in one gallon bottles for changing out pond water. But I've been out of it for a while and I've been using rain to refill the ponds after a partial drain.
I'm sure not buying a RO system and distilled water isn't the answer.
So, tap it is....As it has been.
 

Tom

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I buy it in one gallon bottles for changing out pond water. But I've been out of it for a while and I've been using rain to refill the ponds after a partial drain.
I'm sure not buying a RO system and distilled water isn't the answer.
So, tap it is....As it has been.
RO is okay for spraying the enclosure, but the lacking minerals make it no good for drinking.

Last I read, distilled water is not intended for drinking and sometimes has heavy metals left over from the distillation process. If that is not the case anymore, I hope someone will correct me. I won't use it for anything except my car's radiator or windshield wiper fluid.
 

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RO is okay for spraying the enclosure, but the lacking minerals make it no good for drinking.

Last I read, distilled water is not intended for drinking and sometimes has heavy metals left over from the distillation process. If that is not the case anymore, I hope someone will correct me. I won't use it for anything except my car's radiator or windshield wiper fluid.
Yep.
Maybe I was wrong to be worried that I've been doing something wrong that might harm my animals.
The options seem more harmful....
Or entirely unknown.
Thanks for letting me pick your brain.
 
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