Agreed.
Close encounter with a snake... should a snake be killed if found within a tortoise enclosure?
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RE: Close encounter with a snake...
I live in florida and we have 6 types of venomous snakes. only 4 of which pose any real danger to a tortoise even the size of a yearling. so I would encourage people of this great state to learn about those 4 snakes which are the Eastern diamondback Rattler, Canebrake Rattler, Cottonmouth/water moccasin, and the copperhead.
Another concern is the outbreak of burmese and African Rock pythons in the everglades.
anyway my whole point is that most snakes to not pose any threat to your tortoise and will probably not stay with one very long. so I'm an advocate of leaving snake be.
I live in florida and we have 6 types of venomous snakes. only 4 of which pose any real danger to a tortoise even the size of a yearling. so I would encourage people of this great state to learn about those 4 snakes which are the Eastern diamondback Rattler, Canebrake Rattler, Cottonmouth/water moccasin, and the copperhead.
Another concern is the outbreak of burmese and African Rock pythons in the everglades.
anyway my whole point is that most snakes to not pose any threat to your tortoise and will probably not stay with one very long. so I'm an advocate of leaving snake be.
RE: Close encounter with a snake... should a snake be killed if found within a torto
I was a snake person long before I got my tortoise. I currently own 10 snakes including ball pythons, a carpet python, corn snakes, a rat snake, a boa, and a corn x king snake cross, so it does pain me to here when some just kills a snake.
Like has been stated earlier the eastern indigo is the only snake in the US that will eat a tortoise, and who would for sure not mistake an adult indigo for any other snake. Also if it was an indigo, who those who say they would have still killed it, it is a federal crime to harass, collect, or kill a wild indigo snake. They are an endangered species due to over collection and senseless killing. In fact if you want to own one it cost hundreds of dollars to just get the permits to bring them across state lines, never mind the other paperwork and the cost of the snake itself. And even though this snake will eat a small tortoise (they cannot open their mouth that wide so are fairly limited in what they can eat even though they are the largest native snake in the US) they will also eat even the largest adult diamond back rattle snakes that even king snakes cannot tackle so they will be a natural snake repellent. Yes like has been stated earlier about the king snake they do not specialize in eating other snakes and will eat other things, however, other snakes will actively avoid them out of fear. For example, lions don't usually eat people but would you risk walking into a pride of lions?
Also it is a know fact that the gopher tortoise does in fact have a symbiotic relationship with the eastern diamond back. The snake gets to live in the tortoises burrow. In return, if a predator comes after the residents of the burrow whether it be the tortoise or the snake, the rattler becomes the defender and deters the predator that might have tried to make a meal of the tortoise.
Another couple facts I'd like to point out, most people who get sent to the ER for snake bites were actually harassing or trying to kill the snake themselves, not the snake going after them.
Also people who point out "would you kill a mouse, rat, spider, roach, ect.",
1. The house mouse and the Norway rat are in fact invasive species, the only place they actually belong is in Central Asia. They spread throughout the world with help from people and have causes many species to become endangered and even extinct. There for I do not feel bad about these animals being destroyed.
2. These pest animals live and breed INSIDE your house. They may have originally came from outside but they switched from the ecosystem of your back yard to inside your house. Whatever you do to them inside your house has no affect on the outdoors ecosystem. There for you many do as you please to them. If somehow you manage to get an infestation of snakes living and breeding inside your house then by all means do as you'd please( although I'd recommend doing something about your rodent problem you most likely have.)
Also I am certainly not vegan, I breed rodent for my names as well. That is the circle of life. This snake was taken out of it as it was killed and then most likely thrown away in the trash to rot in some landfill. Yes that snake may have been just killed the next day by a hawk or a king snake or something but in that case it's death would have meant life for another animal and it would not have been wasted. That is the difference between nature and a senseless killing.
Another thing is many snakes are now critically endangered due to killings such as this. I live in Massachusetts and many people Are surprised to head that we do have native venomous snakes, the timber rattle snake and the copperhead. Both these snakes are extremely endangered in my state due to one main reason, senseless killing, in fact people would find their hibernation sites and blow them up with dynamite in the middle of winter killing dozens, even hundreds of snakes.
Lastly, people act like it is an impossible thing as to tell a VENOMOUS snake from a harmless variety. If you look up your local snakes you will soon see that your local pit vipers (cottonmouths, copper heads, and rattlers) stick out like sore thumbs from the other species of snakes in the US once you know what you are looking for. The Coral snake is even easier given its bright colors, just don't mistake it for a harmless mimic species such as the scarlet king snake. "Red touch black, friend of jack. Red touch yellow, kill a fellow".
And now I do not blame you for feeling the way you did and killing the snake. Few years ago I had a hawk kill one of my chickens and I came outside to the bird sitting on top of its lifeless body and at that moment I wanted to break its neck but of course were would that have gotten me. If I did kill that hawk I could have gone to jail if caught, also another hawk would have just moved into the territory and taken the dead one's place. The best weapon against predators honestly is knowledge. Knowing how to identify, avoid, and prevent the problem in the first place will work far better than a gun or a shovel.
I was a snake person long before I got my tortoise. I currently own 10 snakes including ball pythons, a carpet python, corn snakes, a rat snake, a boa, and a corn x king snake cross, so it does pain me to here when some just kills a snake.
Like has been stated earlier the eastern indigo is the only snake in the US that will eat a tortoise, and who would for sure not mistake an adult indigo for any other snake. Also if it was an indigo, who those who say they would have still killed it, it is a federal crime to harass, collect, or kill a wild indigo snake. They are an endangered species due to over collection and senseless killing. In fact if you want to own one it cost hundreds of dollars to just get the permits to bring them across state lines, never mind the other paperwork and the cost of the snake itself. And even though this snake will eat a small tortoise (they cannot open their mouth that wide so are fairly limited in what they can eat even though they are the largest native snake in the US) they will also eat even the largest adult diamond back rattle snakes that even king snakes cannot tackle so they will be a natural snake repellent. Yes like has been stated earlier about the king snake they do not specialize in eating other snakes and will eat other things, however, other snakes will actively avoid them out of fear. For example, lions don't usually eat people but would you risk walking into a pride of lions?
Also it is a know fact that the gopher tortoise does in fact have a symbiotic relationship with the eastern diamond back. The snake gets to live in the tortoises burrow. In return, if a predator comes after the residents of the burrow whether it be the tortoise or the snake, the rattler becomes the defender and deters the predator that might have tried to make a meal of the tortoise.
Another couple facts I'd like to point out, most people who get sent to the ER for snake bites were actually harassing or trying to kill the snake themselves, not the snake going after them.
Also people who point out "would you kill a mouse, rat, spider, roach, ect.",
1. The house mouse and the Norway rat are in fact invasive species, the only place they actually belong is in Central Asia. They spread throughout the world with help from people and have causes many species to become endangered and even extinct. There for I do not feel bad about these animals being destroyed.
2. These pest animals live and breed INSIDE your house. They may have originally came from outside but they switched from the ecosystem of your back yard to inside your house. Whatever you do to them inside your house has no affect on the outdoors ecosystem. There for you many do as you please to them. If somehow you manage to get an infestation of snakes living and breeding inside your house then by all means do as you'd please( although I'd recommend doing something about your rodent problem you most likely have.)
Also I am certainly not vegan, I breed rodent for my names as well. That is the circle of life. This snake was taken out of it as it was killed and then most likely thrown away in the trash to rot in some landfill. Yes that snake may have been just killed the next day by a hawk or a king snake or something but in that case it's death would have meant life for another animal and it would not have been wasted. That is the difference between nature and a senseless killing.
Another thing is many snakes are now critically endangered due to killings such as this. I live in Massachusetts and many people Are surprised to head that we do have native venomous snakes, the timber rattle snake and the copperhead. Both these snakes are extremely endangered in my state due to one main reason, senseless killing, in fact people would find their hibernation sites and blow them up with dynamite in the middle of winter killing dozens, even hundreds of snakes.
Lastly, people act like it is an impossible thing as to tell a VENOMOUS snake from a harmless variety. If you look up your local snakes you will soon see that your local pit vipers (cottonmouths, copper heads, and rattlers) stick out like sore thumbs from the other species of snakes in the US once you know what you are looking for. The Coral snake is even easier given its bright colors, just don't mistake it for a harmless mimic species such as the scarlet king snake. "Red touch black, friend of jack. Red touch yellow, kill a fellow".
And now I do not blame you for feeling the way you did and killing the snake. Few years ago I had a hawk kill one of my chickens and I came outside to the bird sitting on top of its lifeless body and at that moment I wanted to break its neck but of course were would that have gotten me. If I did kill that hawk I could have gone to jail if caught, also another hawk would have just moved into the territory and taken the dead one's place. The best weapon against predators honestly is knowledge. Knowing how to identify, avoid, and prevent the problem in the first place will work far better than a gun or a shovel.
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RE: Close encounter with a snake... should a snake be killed if found within a torto
Totally agree. Would do the same.
Glad somebody had the guts to say it...
mattgrizzlybear said:
Totally agree. Would do the same.
Ruchonnet said:
Glad somebody had the guts to say it...
RE: Close encounter with a snake... should a snake be killed if found within a torto
I do agreed with this post..
Snake won't eat torts I guess, cause snake only eat hot blood like mammals, not a cold blood..
emysemys said:
I do agreed with this post..
Snake won't eat torts I guess, cause snake only eat hot blood like mammals, not a cold blood..
RE: Close encounter with a snake... should a snake be killed if found within a torto
As discussed earlier, this is actually very inaccurate. Most snakes are fairly opportunistic and will include any of the following in their natural diet: insects, arachnids, worms, fish, frogs, toads, salamanders, lizards, other snakes, centipedes, termites, and more. In fact, only a handful of North American species exclusively eat warm-blooded prey.
Again, the only two snake species in North America that occasionally include tortoises and turtles in their diet are:
- indigo snakes (rare, and an endangered species throughout their range)
- cottonmouths (i.e. moccasins)
Ignorance and prejudice solves nothing. If people would just take a little time to educate themselves about their local wildlife....[sigh]
evlinLoutries said:
As discussed earlier, this is actually very inaccurate. Most snakes are fairly opportunistic and will include any of the following in their natural diet: insects, arachnids, worms, fish, frogs, toads, salamanders, lizards, other snakes, centipedes, termites, and more. In fact, only a handful of North American species exclusively eat warm-blooded prey.
Again, the only two snake species in North America that occasionally include tortoises and turtles in their diet are:
- indigo snakes (rare, and an endangered species throughout their range)
- cottonmouths (i.e. moccasins)
Ignorance and prejudice solves nothing. If people would just take a little time to educate themselves about their local wildlife....[sigh]
RE: Close encounter with a snake... should a snake be killed if found within a torto
I had the same situation and grabbed long tongs out of the kitchen and a plastic pitcher with lid and held my snake 7 inches from the head and quickly pulled it up and out. I did this three times (three snakes). I re-homed them in a warm rocky area that also has a water source. No need to kill them. I learned it's helpful to grab a beer or a glass of wine first
I had the same situation and grabbed long tongs out of the kitchen and a plastic pitcher with lid and held my snake 7 inches from the head and quickly pulled it up and out. I did this three times (three snakes). I re-homed them in a warm rocky area that also has a water source. No need to kill them. I learned it's helpful to grab a beer or a glass of wine first
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RE: Close encounter with a snake... should a snake be killed if found within a torto
No such thing as a poisonous snake.
(venomous)
No such thing as a poisonous snake.
(venomous)
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RE: Close encounter with a snake... should a snake be killed if found within a torto
Haha poor snake! He didn't stand a chance if he tries bothering an animal lovers pet
Haha poor snake! He didn't stand a chance if he tries bothering an animal lovers pet
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