Confirm my Terrarium Set Up Please!

[moem1090]

Hello everyone! So I literally just put this set up together and wanted to get an insight if my set up is okay for now. I am looking for confirmation and advice. Please don't scrutinize if you don't like I am willing to change that's why I'm here! I can always upgrade/exchange/return. I want to do this right. I have attached pics!

So for the terrarium I have the exo terra 36" wide. For what I have read it's never about how small but how big of space you can provide. I am hoping this is sufficient until he gets a little bigger. I know closed chamber is best to hold in humidity so will the open mesh ruin that?

The basking lamp is laying directly on top of the metal mesh with a 75w bulb. I bought a heat gun and directly under it gets hotter than the recommended 100 degrees. But my star found his comfort spot around and is constantly moving back and forth. If I find it too hot I am going to switch to a 50w bulb.

The UVB fixture is the Zilla aquatic with a T8 bulb. I have read MVB is not recommended nor coils and the really nice exo terra associated top fixtures seem to be coils only. Is Zilla aquatic okay? I didn't find many options. Is the location of it okay?

The substrate is coconut fiber and I have added just over an inch so he has cushion and can easily move around. (I added water after this post) Considering I will clean poop and leftover food often, how often should the substrate be changed? Damn thing takes ~3/4ths of a full bag

Is the location of the thermometer and humidity monitor okay? I read having 2 on opposite ends too and bottom is best so I will acquire another one, maybe probe style to dig into the cool end on the bottom. Remember I do have a temp gun that is used often.

The hideaway and food/water dish I bought broke on delivery so I am buying new ones today. I was thinking the hideaway to be located near the basking and the food dish on the cooler end? Correct?

Btw I have the tank currently on the floor which never gets cold. I just need to acquire a table to raise him up.

Thank you!

 

[chemprentice]

I would add a few hides to help him/her feel more secure in the enclosure, i.e. logs, humid hides, terra cotta pots turned sideways, and maybe a few (edible) plants.

 

[Maro2Bear]

Greetings...

I’d definitely recommend a hide, some visual barriers for tort to crawl about and explore, a sunken terra cotta water bowl, better temp and humidity gauges ( get digital ones with probes) and put the probe where your tort is, not half way up the tank. Better enclosure top, seal the screens.

I don’t keep this species, will defer to others for other suggestions. I’d also quickly move the entire thing up off the floor soon too, before it gets too heavy.

 

[zovick]

If you buy the Eco Earth (coco fiber) in the brick form, it is much more economical than buying the bags. Three of the bricks can be had for $4.49 and each brick will make roughly the same amount of substrate as the $6.99 bag, so for roughly 2/3 the cost of a bag you can get 3 times the amount by getting the bricks three at a time. My local Petsmart has the bricks in three packs, but here is another source:

http://www.lllreptile.com/catalog/151-moss-coco-and-other-substrates

 

[Markw84]

@moem1090 Welcome to the forum. You have a beautiful star tortoise. I appreciate you coming here for input to try to do the best for your little tortoise. Perhaps I can give some ideas to help ensure your tortoise does well:

I would recommend you read this post at the top of the star section here as a beginning point and reference:

https://tortoiseforum.org/threads/how-to-raise-a-healthy-star-tortoise.159167/

The screen top will not work. First it will block a good amount of the UVB from ever reaching your tortoise. A screen like that will probably block about 40-50% of the UVB. The T8 bulb you have does not put out a great amount of UVB to begin with. If it is a 10.0 bulb, it really needs to be in the 10" range as far as height above the tortoise. If it is a 5.0 it needs to be even closer. Either way, it must have nothing between the bulb and tortoise to be effective.

The screen top will also not hold heat and humidity well at all. Although you can get a good reading from the IR directly under the bulb, it is not going to effectively heat the enclosure at all. You have nothing for night heat. At night, the temperatures are going to drop way too low. A CHE on a thermostat is needed. Never let temps drop below 80° in the coolest part of the enclosure for a young star. You need to correct his immediately as your star could develop a respiratory infection quite easily as you have things now. On the floor and next to the window, there is no way you are keeping the enclosure warm enough, even if your whole room is heated to 85° with the cooling effect of the floor and window. Your temperature and humidity gauges are of a type that can be quite inaccurate. An inexpensive digital type thermometer/hygrometer would be much better. it needs to be located at the coolest part of the enclosure and down at tortoise level. Up on the side near the basking bulb will not give a accurate reading at all.

Simple physics and thermodynamics are working against you. With the basking bulb sitting on top of the enclosure, all the warmer air is constantly being drawn up and out of the enclosure. Just look at the way the fixture for the bulb is designed - there are holes at the base of the bulb to allow for air to be draw up, around the bulb and out. That is designed to take advantage of the drafting effect of warmer air and to help cool the bulb and keep it from overheating. Overheating a bulb is the quickest way to burn one out. But that also means that chimney effect (drafting) is constantly drawing warm air from your enclosure and sucking in cooler and drier room air.

That also means you will not be able to maintain humidity in the enclosure as well. Your tortoise will pyramid and not do as well if kept in conditions that are not humid enough. Please be sure to read the post I linked at the beginning for more on this very important aspect of raising a healthy star.

So with these considerations, I have found no way to provide these things for a star without a totally covered enclosure and the lights and heating placed inside the enclosure.

Also, as mentioned, your tortoise needs hides. None of my stars have ever used a "hide box". But they all prefer, and spend most of their resting time, pushed under the overhang of some plants. That is very natural for them and will greatly reduce stress and allow for a more healthy tortoise. I place some plants in the enclosure in pots to create 3 or 4 places they can feel secure. A tortoise in an open, barren enclosure will be constantly stressed and most often fail to thrive.

Please read the linked post and come back with any and all questions.

 

[moem1090]

I would add a few hides to help him/her feel more secure in the enclosure, i.e. logs, humid hides, terra cotta pots turned sideways, and maybe a few (edible) plants.

Thanks for the suggestions! I am trying to picture a sideways terra cotta pot.

Which plants are good options?

 

[chemprentice]

Thanks for the suggestions! I am trying to picture a sideways terra cotta pot.

Which plants are good options?

The pot is in the top corner of the enclosure. I personally don't keep plants in my setup, but I've heard that spider plants are a good starter plant.

 

[moem1090]

The pot is in the top corner of the enclosure. I personally don't keep plants in my setup, but I've heard that spider plants are a good starter plant.

Cool man thank you for the suggestions! I think I'll be adding extra substrate and leveling it out through out to accomplish something like that. I can see the little guy wanting to burrow into something like that in the corner

 

[moem1090]

Greetings...

I’d definitely recommend a hide, some visual barriers for tort to crawl about and explore, a sunken terra cotta water bowl, better temp and humidity gauges ( get digital ones with probes) and put the probe where your tort is, not half way up the tank. Better enclosure top, seal the screens.

I don’t keep this species, will defer to others for other suggestions. I’d also quickly move the entire thing up off the floor soon too, before it gets too heavy.

Thanks for the suggestions! To pick your brain a bit more ...

Visual barriers as in to cover up more of the glass to prevent the little guy from seeing outwards and stressing about it?

By sunken bowl, should I add more substrate and kind of burry the bowl so that the top of the dish is level with the substrate?

Better probe style gauges- check!
Off the floor- definitely check!

 

[moem1090]

If you buy the Eco Earth (coco fiber) in the brick form, it is much more economical than buying the bags. Three of the bricks can be had for $4.49 and each brick will make roughly the same amount of substrate as the $6.99 bag, so for roughly 2/3 the cost of a bag you can get 3 times the amount by getting the bricks three at a time. My local Petsmart has the bricks in three packs, but here is another source:

http://www.lllreptile.com/catalog/151-moss-coco-and-other-substrates

Thanks for the suggestion! It's now on the list considering I want to add a lot more to specific parts of the enclosure

 

[chemprentice]

Thanks for the suggestions! To pick your brain a bit more ...

Visual barriers as in to cover up more of the glass to prevent the little guy from seeing outwards and stressing about it?

By sunken bowl, should I add more substrate and kind of burry the bowl so that the top of the dish is level with the substrate?

Better probe style gauges- check!
Off the floor- definitely check!

Definitely have the rim of the bowl level with the substrate.

 

[Maro2Bear]

Greetings again, not sure if you have made more changes, but I’d remove the two pine cones... you don’t want your torts nibbling on the sap. And you asked about the reason behind “visual barriers”.... simply put, a few more things to hide behind and feel safe and add some variety...

@Markw84 - provided some great input on this as well.

• But they all prefer, and spend most of their resting time, pushed under the overhang of some plants. That is very natural for them and will greatly reduce stress and allow for a more healthy tortoise. I place some plants in the enclosure in pots to create 3 or 4 places they can feel secure. A tortoise in an open, barren enclosure will be constantly stressed and most often fail to thrive.

 

[moem1090]

Hey Mark,

Thank you for taking the time to give me such a detailed response. I only delayed responding so I can read more and gather my questions for one post. Please mind all the small questions if they sound silly or not or redundant

First off, your set up is absolutely stunning and admirable! I definitely learned a lot there.

The screen cover will not work. A closed chamber like set up is key. I got it! I am going to work on customizing a top to place on the terrarium to close it up with opening for the fixtures only. New temp probe style gauges are on the way. If you don't mind, here are some additional questions...

1. CHE with thermostat. Do you recommend a specific type? Also can I place it adjacent to the heat lamp or does it not matter much. I ask because my little guy is primarily in that corner at night
2. The UVB fixture, after adjusting the top, is it fine that it is illuminating the other side of the enclosure. Right now facing the set up, the basking bulb is on the left and the uvb on the right so it looks yellow one one side and white on the other? He does move back and forth
3. Right now I am using the coconut fiber substrate and will try out the orchid bark next. Do you mix in the water BEFORE putting it in the enclosure or while it's in there. Seems easier to do so before hand so it's well mixed. And also considering the water, how often do you add water, when the humidity drops? How often is the watery substrate replaced? When it stinks?
4. I am going to add in some spider plants because they are the most easily accessible without pesticides. Correct me if I am wrong. I should place the plants in small pots and burry in the pot so that the rim is level with the substrate? Or is the key to just get the plant leaves to lean down for shade and hide. Placement of those plants better on the uvb end or doesn't matter considering I'd place at least 2 maybe on opposite sides of the enclosure.
5. Sloping side water bowl.. like something he can easily walk and out of where one end has a little puddle amount?

Thank you!!

 

[moem1090]

Greetings again, not sure if you have made more changes, but I’d remove the two pine cones... you don’t want your torts nibbling on the sap. And you asked about the reason behind “visual barriers”.... simply put, a few more things to hide behind and feel safe and add some variety...

@Markw84 - provided some great input on this as well.

• But they all prefer, and spend most of their resting time, pushed under the overhang of some plants. That is very natural for them and will greatly reduce stress and allow for a more healthy tortoise. I place some plants in the enclosure in pots to create 3 or 4 places they can feel secure. A tortoise in an open, barren enclosure will be constantly stressed and most often fail to thrive.

The pine cones are from the set up of the other fellow tortoise owner. I like his terra cotta corner spot filled with substrate. I feel like my little guy would go burry himself in there if I did that. What do you think?

Right now I have a half log he sometimes goes under and will be getting some plants to fill it in more!

 

[Markw84]

Hey Mark,

Thank you for taking the time to give me such a detailed response. I only delayed responding so I can read more and gather my questions for one post. Please mind all the small questions if they sound silly or not or redundant

First off, your set up is absolutely stunning and admirable! I definitely learned a lot there.

The screen cover will not work. A closed chamber like set up is key. I got it! I am going to work on customizing a top to place on the terrarium to close it up with opening for the fixtures only. New temp probe style gauges are on the way. If you don't mind, here are some additional questions...

1. CHE with thermostat. Do you recommend a specific type? Also can I place it adjacent to the heat lamp or does it not matter much. I ask because my little guy is primarily in that corner at night
2. The UVB fixture, after adjusting the top, is it fine that it is illuminating the other side of the enclosure. Right now facing the set up, the basking bulb is on the left and the uvb on the right so it looks yellow one one side and white on the other? He does move back and forth
3. Right now I am using the coconut fiber substrate and will try out the orchid bark next. Do you mix in the water BEFORE putting it in the enclosure or while it's in there. Seems easier to do so before hand so it's well mixed. And also considering the water, how often do you add water, when the humidity drops? How often is the watery substrate replaced? When it stinks?
4. I am going to add in some spider plants because they are the most easily accessible without pesticides. Correct me if I am wrong. I should place the plants in small pots and burry in the pot so that the rim is level with the substrate? Or is the key to just get the plant leaves to lean down for shade and hide. Placement of those plants better on the uvb end or doesn't matter considering I'd place at least 2 maybe on opposite sides of the enclosure.
5. Sloping side water bowl.. like something he can easily walk and out of where one end has a little puddle amount?

Thank you!!

I certainly don't consider questions silly. If something is unclear to you, it is silly not to ask!

1. Lots of brands of CHEs. They are all about the same, but I do always get the ones that are flat and about 3" round at the end to give a surface area for emission. They last a really long time. I have some I've had in use for about 20 years now. In a small enclosure your size you could place it in the same area as the basking bulb, but keep in mind the CHE is the maintain a minimum temp throughout the enclosure. The thermostat probe should be placed away from the CHE giving you the coolest reading in the enclosure. The basking bulb ideally is placed to give a warmer basking area with a heat gradient away from it. So normally a basking area is on one side of an enclosure while the CHE is placed more centrally to more evenly heat the enclosure to a min temp.

2. I like the UVB to be as close to the basking heat as possible. Tortoises are used to basking sensing the heat from above and stretch out to absorb heat and UV when they feel it. So the UV will do best if it is near the basking bulb. Just like with heat, I like a gradient for light as well. So a darker side to the enclosure is not a bad thing at all.

3. I mix water in while it is in the enclosure. To start, you could certainly mix outside, but you will need to repeat at least weekly adding water to the substrate, so mixing in the enclosure is the norm. I remix the substrate by hand as the top get dry. It is easy to see that. Normally plenty of moisture still below will make that enough. I add additional water when mixing alone does not uniformly make the bark moist. Be sure you get "fine grade" orchid bark for a smaller tortoise. Much easier to walk on. With daily baths, the tortoise normally poops in the bath and greatly reduces and sometimes eliminates that mess in the enclosure. When he does go in the enclosure, it is easy to see and just spot clean-pickup. So the substrate will rarely need to be changed. It will be fine for at least a year or two - and your tortoise will outgrow this enclosure before that would happen.

4. I do two things for plants. I hang plants in the enclosure so the fronds hang down creating a place they like to crawl under, yet it takes no floor space from the enclosure and they cannot destroy the plant. They simply keep it trimmed up. I also put pots in large enough to keep them from tipping it over or climbing in. Again there is overhang for hides and browsing. I'll put a picture of a brand new enclosure I finished yesterday to show you and give you ideas below. It is 4x8x2-1/2 for reference.

5. I use plant saucers for going under planted indoor plants - either the clay saucer type or the rough plastic type. I like it big enough for the tortoise to easily fit in and self soak. I like the sides short enough so the tortoise can walk out easily and not get "high centered". I do recess it into the substrate so the edge is level to substrate.

Here's how I set up plants for the new enclosure. I am always growing cuttings to give me good clean no chemical plants for enclosures. You can see the clay saucer food dish and the resin water dish. (I also still see a price tag on the new pot!)



Here's how the new residents chose to rest once the sunset lighting sequence started last evening:



Here's a view of one of my smaller enclosures with a yearling leopard for ideas as well:



Hope this helps.

 

[CarolM]

I certainly don't consider questions silly. If something is unclear to you, it is silly not to ask!

1. Lots of brands of CHEs. They are all about the same, but I do always get the ones that are flat and about 3" round at the end to give a surface area for emission. They last a really long time. I have some I've had in use for about 20 years now. In a small enclosure your size you could place it in the same area as the basking bulb, but keep in mind the CHE is the maintain a minimum temp throughout the enclosure. The thermostat probe should be placed away from the CHE giving you the coolest reading in the enclosure. The basking bulb ideally is placed to give a warmer basking area with a heat gradient away from it. So normally a basking area is on one side of an enclosure while the CHE is placed more centrally to more evenly heat the enclosure to a min temp.

2. I like the UVB to be as close to the basking heat as possible. Tortoises are used to basking sensing the heat from above and stretch out to absorb heat and UV when they feel it. So the UV will do best if it is near the basking bulb. Just like with heat, I like a gradient for light as well. So a darker side to the enclosure is not a bad thing at all.

3. I mix water in while it is in the enclosure. To start, you could certainly mix outside, but you will need to repeat at least weekly adding water to the substrate, so mixing in the enclosure is the norm. I remix the substrate by hand as the top get dry. It is easy to see that. Normally plenty of moisture still below will make that enough. I add additional water when mixing alone does not uniformly make the bark moist. Be sure you get "fine grade" orchid bark for a smaller tortoise. Much easier to walk on. With daily baths, the tortoise normally poops in the bath and greatly reduces and sometimes eliminates that mess in the enclosure. When he does go in the enclosure, it is easy to see and just spot clean-pickup. So the substrate will rarely need to be changed. It will be fine for at least a year or two - and your tortoise will outgrow this enclosure before that would happen.

4. I do two things for plants. I hang plants in the enclosure so the fronds hang down creating a place they like to crawl under, yet it takes no floor space from the enclosure and they cannot destroy the plant. They simply keep it trimmed up. I also put pots in large enough to keep them from tipping it over or climbing in. Again there is overhang for hides and browsing. I'll put a picture of a brand new enclosure I finished yesterday to show you and give you ideas below. It is 4x8x2-1/2 for reference.

5. I use plant saucers for going under planted indoor plants - either the clay saucer type or the rough plastic type. I like it big enough for the tortoise to easily fit in and self soak. I like the sides short enough so the tortoise can walk out easily and not get "high centered". I do recess it into the substrate so the edge is level to substrate.

Here's how I set up plants for the new enclosure. I am always growing cuttings to give me good clean no chemical plants for enclosures. You can see the clay saucer food dish and the resin water dish. (I also still see a price tag on the new pot!)

View attachment 228139

Here's how the new residents chose to rest once the sunset lighting sequence started last evening:

View attachment 228140

Here's a view of one of my smaller enclosures with a yearling leopard for ideas as well:

View attachment 228141

Hope this helps.

Those are really beautiful enclosures. But then yours always are.