Damaged Carapace

[CrystalCaryn]

Hello! First time poster. 5 weeks ago, we adopted a rescued Russian tortoise. She had been found in a driveway. No one responded to lost pet posts, so we have no idea what her history is. She was checked by a vet who confirmed that she has metabolic bone disease, but otherwise seems very healthy and her stool was clear. She is now kept with UVA/B lights, a 90°F basking area, and with a 50/50 topsoil and coco coir substrate. She is also getting a varied diet including plantain, dandelion, clover, desert tort pellets, dark lettuces, arugula, and radicchio with a calcium D3 supplement. She should be able to thicken her carapace and grow, and she already has a new growth ring. My concern is that her left side looks pinched and it doesn't look like the new growth is even because of it. I don't know of anything that can be done to fix it, but how will this affect her long term health? Oh, I forgot to mention, the vet and I are guessing her age to be around 3 years old, she is definitely a subadult. The first photo is from June 4th, the side view photos are from today. Any advice is welcome.

 

[wellington]

What test were done by the vet that they said it had MBD? Usually there are outward signs and I don't see any.
Get her set up in a proper sized enclosure, as big as possible but at least 4x8 foot and preferably outside for summer. Feed her properly and keep her hydrated. She should do fine

 

[Littleredfootbigredheart]

Hello and welcome to the forum! Bless you for taking this tortoise in❤️

I’m going to include some information below on an appropriate indoor set up for this girl, including the appropriate indoor uv, if she is primarily housed outdoors, you may not need it, but if housed inside for a good portion of the year, I’d add it.

Basking light should be an incandescent floodlight(example attached) on a 12 hour timer.

Basking temperature directly under the floodlight should be 95-100f. The rest of the enclosure should be ranging 75-80 during the day.

You may also wish to add ambient lighting on the same timer, providing shady areas with hides and safe plants.

Then CHE/CHE’s(ceramic heat emitters) always on a thermostat, for night heat if your house drops below 60’s at night. Set the thermostat for a night temperature place the probe in their cooler end, plug the che into it and the thermostat into the mains, it’ll be plugged in 24/7 but will only turn on when the temperature drops. If your house stays in the 60’s don’t worry about this!

Uv should be a t5 fluorescent tube, avoid the compact and coil uv bulbs, they don’t give out enough uv and can hurt the tortoises eyes. The uv can be on a 4 hour timer from noon. I’ve attached examples of the two brands to go for and some examples of how to mount them.

With lighting always avoid anything labelled halogen or mercury vapour.

For substrates, either coco coir, dampened and packed down by hand as a base, with a layer of orchid(fir not pine) bark or forest floor on top, or just the orchid bark/forest floor. Never use anything with sand mixed in, no top soils and no kinds of moss. The problem with top soil is unless you’ve composted it yourself, you don’t know what kind of plants have gone into it, it could be something toxic.

You want to aim to have the bottom layer of substrate damp, to do this pour lukewarm water into the corners, not loads but enough to dampen the entire bottom layer. To stop that top layer getting a little too dry/dusty, mix the substrate now n then. Check your monitors and substrate to do the pours as and when needed.

I’d personally recommend you make your own base to go as big as you possibly can for the space you have, roaming room is vital for tortoise health, it aids in digestion and builds muscle strength. The closer you can get to an 8x4 size the better, but again if yours is primarily housed in a large outdoor space, you’ll get away with something smaller for whilst they’re inside. They still do need roaming room though.

When making your base, just make sure the material is safe, some use flower beds, or take a large bookcase, take out the shelves and lie flat, or just make their own, for all these options I’d line with cheap pond liner to protect the base, making sure the liner goes up the sides too and make sure those sides are deep enough! Russians are professional escape artists😂

I’ve also included examples of stands people make/buy to hang their lighting, use a temperature gun to determine how high the basking bulb needs to be, the uv I suggested needs to be mounted 18-20 inches from the substrate.

For a water dish a shallow terracotta saucer is considered safest, they have grip in the event your tortoise flips themselves, most pet store options are a known hazard.

I’d also always recommend getting your hands on a temp gun, they’re SO handy when setting up a new environment or for checking your monitors are correct🙂

Diet sounds pretty good with you so far, maybe you’ll find this link below useful for some more ideas😊

The Tortoise Table - Home

The Tortoise Table plant database and resource site for Tortoise owners

www.thetortoisetable.org.uk

all the best🥰

 

[SinLA]

@Yvonne G

 

[CrystalCaryn]

What test were done by the vet that they said it had MBD? Usually there are outward signs and I don't see any.
Get her set up in a proper sized enclosure, as big as possible but at least 4x8 foot and preferably outside for summer. Feed her properly and keep her hydrated. She should do fine

She's an indoor tortoise, in a 150 gallon stock tank. We've been soaking her 3 times a week and she has a water saucer. She's only been in this tank just over a week, so we're still balancing moisture. As for the MBD, her carapace is more domed than it should be and has translucent spots, as well as the uneven growth. I assume those should thicken and become opaque with time? She's a great eater and has a sweet personality, she already comes to me when I put my hand in the enclosure. She's also very active, climbing on her hides and learning that she has enough substrate to dig now. She's here to stay 🙂

 

[wellington]

A 150 gallon is too small. She needs a 4x8 foot minimum.
I doubt she has MBD, but @Yvonne G can probably confirm if those are even symptoms of it.

 

[Littleredfootbigredheart]

She's an indoor tortoise, in a 150 gallon stock tank. We've been soaking her 3 times a week and she has a water saucer. She's only been in this tank just over a week, so we're still balancing moisture. As for the MBD, her carapace is more domed than it should be and has translucent spots, as well as the uneven growth. I assume those should thicken and become opaque with time? She's a great eater and has a sweet personality, she already comes to me when I put my hand in the enclosure. She's also very active, climbing on her hides and learning that she has enough substrate to dig now. She's here to stay 🙂

What kind of lighting/heating is that you’re using? Packaging photos are great if you have them, UV should be a t5 tube light as mentioned in my previous😊
You could definitely do with size upgrading as soon as possible, hopefully my other reply can help give you an idea🙂

 

[CrystalCaryn]

Hello and welcome to the forum! Bless you for taking this tortoise in❤️

I’m going to include some information below on an appropriate indoor set up for this girl, including the appropriate indoor uv, if she is primarily housed outdoors, you may not need it, but if housed inside for a good portion of the year, I’d add it.

Basking light should be an incandescent floodlight(example attached) on a 12 hour timer.

Basking temperature directly under the floodlight should be 95-100f. The rest of the enclosure should be ranging 75-80 during the day.

You may also wish to add ambient lighting on the same timer, providing shady areas with hides and safe plants.

Then CHE/CHE’s(ceramic heat emitters) always on a thermostat, for night heat if your house drops below 60’s at night. Set the thermostat for a night temperature place the probe in their cooler end, plug the che into it and the thermostat into the mains, it’ll be plugged in 24/7 but will only turn on when the temperature drops. If your house stays in the 60’s don’t worry about this!

Uv should be a t5 fluorescent tube, avoid the compact and coil uv bulbs, they don’t give out enough uv and can hurt the tortoises eyes. The uv can be on a 4 hour timer from noon. I’ve attached examples of the two brands to go for and some examples of how to mount them.

With lighting always avoid anything labelled halogen or mercury vapour.

For substrates, either coco coir, dampened and packed down by hand as a base, with a layer of orchid(fir not pine) bark or forest floor on top, or just the orchid bark/forest floor. Never use anything with sand mixed in, no top soils and no kinds of moss. The problem with top soil is unless you’ve composted it yourself, you don’t know what kind of plants have gone into it, it could be something toxic.

You want to aim to have the bottom layer of substrate damp, to do this pour lukewarm water into the corners, not loads but enough to dampen the entire bottom layer. To stop that top layer getting a little too dry/dusty, mix the substrate now n then. Check your monitors and substrate to do the pours as and when needed.

I’d personally recommend you make your own base to go as big as you possibly can for the space you have, roaming room is vital for tortoise health, it aids in digestion and builds muscle strength. The closer you can get to an 8x4 size the better, but again if yours is primarily housed in a large outdoor space, you’ll get away with something smaller for whilst they’re inside. They still do need roaming room though.

When making your base, just make sure the material is safe, some use flower beds, or take a large bookcase, take out the shelves and lie flat, or just make their own, for all these options I’d line with cheap pond liner to protect the base, making sure the liner goes up the sides too and make sure those sides are deep enough! Russians are professional escape artists😂

I’ve also included examples of stands people make/buy to hang their lighting, use a temperature gun to determine how high the basking bulb needs to be, the uv I suggested needs to be mounted 18-20 inches from the substrate.

For a water dish a shallow terracotta saucer is considered safest, they have grip in the event your tortoise flips themselves, most pet store options are a known hazard.

I’d also always recommend getting your hands on a temp gun, they’re SO handy when setting up a new environment or for checking your monitors are correct🙂

Diet sounds pretty good with you so far, maybe you’ll find this link below useful for some more ideas😊

The Tortoise Table - Home

The Tortoise Table plant database and resource site for Tortoise owners

www.thetortoisetable.org.uk

all the best🥰

Thanks! We do have the heat bulb on a thermostat, at soil level with a slate tile. The light is on a timer, I had read compact fluorescent was fine if you replace them every 6 months? Food this time of year is easy, we don't treat our lawn so there's plenty of weeds to forage and I'm starting to grow things plantain and dandelion indoors for the cold months. I wanted to grow plants in the enclosure, but she has a huge appetite. I tried catgrass and cornflower so far, completely eaten within a few hours lol. She does get roaming about the house time (always supervised) for extra exercise and simulation.

 

[Littleredfootbigredheart]

Thanks! We do have the heat bulb on a thermostat, at soil level with a slate tile. The light is on a timer, I had read compact fluorescent was fine if you replace them every 6 months? Food this time of year is easy, we don't treat our lawn so there's plenty of weeds to forage and I'm starting to grow things plantain and dandelion indoors for the cold months. I wanted to grow plants in the enclosure, but she has a huge appetite. I tried catgrass and cornflower so far, completely eaten within a few hours lol. She does get roaming about the house time (always supervised) for extra exercise and simulation.

The trouble with the compact uv bulbs is they can create uv hot spots that are damaging, and they don’t spread the uv light over a large enough area, the tube lights disperse it so much better and they aren’t too harsh.

The floodlight should be fine off of a thermostat if you get a temp gun to determine exactly how high it needs to be hung🙂
Any CHE’s always need to be on a thermostat though.

I’d be very careful letting her free roam, it’s generally discouraged for numerous reasons.
Being away from their heat source means they’re being exposed to temperatures that are too low quite often.
If you have smooth surfaces like laminate flooring, it will wreak havoc on their hip joints over time.

Im not saying there’s not measures you can take to make it safer and always be sure to be in the room monitoring, I’d personally discourage it but I understand you wanting to let her stretch her legs more whilst she’s in the smaller set up.

There’s are things to bare in mind, harmful floor cleaners, foreign objects being swallowed, getting stuck under things they shouldn’t like shelving or sofas, low temperatures, no uv, getting hit by doors, one member has mentioned they knew someone who’s tort got their head crushed in a door jam😣, flipping hazards.. all reasons close supervision is key and why a free roam indoors should be limited.

They feel most comfortable in a place that best mimics their environment🙂indoor free roams over time isn’t good for them.

Ultimately a safe, large enough enclosure will be the goal, hopefully we can all help with any queries setting that up and follow your progress🥰
If you have a nice chemical free garden, perhaps you can set something up for her out there to enjoy during warmer days🙂as long as there’s lots of shady spots👍

 

[CrystalCaryn]

The trouble with the compact uv bulbs is they can create uv hot spots that are damaging, and they don’t spread the uv light over a large enough area, the tube lights disperse it so much better and they aren’t too harsh.

The floodlight should be fine off of a thermostat if you get a temp gun to determine exactly how high it needs to be hung🙂
Any CHE’s always need to be on a thermostat though.

I’d be very careful letting her free roam, it’s generally discouraged for numerous reasons.
Being away from their heat source means they’re being exposed to temperatures that are too low quite often.
If you have smooth surfaces like laminate flooring, it will wreak havoc on their hip joints over time.

Im not saying there’s not measures you can take to make it safer and always be sure to be in the room monitoring, I’d personally discourage it but I understand you wanting to let her stretch her legs more whilst she’s in the smaller set up.

There’s are things to bare in mind, harmful floor cleaners, foreign objects being swallowed, getting stuck under things they shouldn’t like shelving or sofas, low temperatures, no uv, getting hit by doors, one member has mentioned they knew someone who’s tort got their head crushed in a door jam😣, flipping hazards.. all reasons close supervision is key and why a free roam indoors should be limited.

They feel most comfortable in a place that best mimics their environment🙂indoor free roams over time isn’t good for them.

Ultimately a safe, large enough enclosure will be the goal, hopefully we can all help with any queries setting that up and follow your progress🥰
If you have a nice chemical free garden, perhaps you can set something up for her out there to enjoy during warmer days🙂as long as there’s lots of shady spots👍

We've taken her outdoors a couple of times. She just sat in place and ate 🙄 and yes, indoor romps are only for about 30 minutes and she's under constant supervision. She travels, loves to explore. Our kid's Russian who lived here before they moved out would just crawl into a box or corner, scratch, then go to sleep. Our Nayda is extremely curious and alert, it's amazing how different they are. We've talked about an outdoor space, but I don't think it's feasible this year, tween meeting her needs and keeping wildlife and neighborhood cats out. At least I know she's hydrated (very little urates in her urine), getting a nice varied diet, and keeping warm. And she won't get lost or released or almost run over with me.

 

[Littleredfootbigredheart]

Hopefully we can help advising getting her a nice sized set up indoors for you as outdoor isn’t an option right now😊maybe my first reply can inspire you🥰

 

[CrystalCaryn]

Hopefully we can help advising getting her a nice sized set up indoors for you as outdoor isn’t an option right now😊maybe my first reply can inspire you🥰

Nayda says thank you!