Day Old Tortoise Egg was Rolled

[Sam & Ella]

Please no conjecture or generalities? I cannot find any professional, definitive answer to this question: How many
days can a tortoise egg (pancake in this instance) be "rolled" after deposit, and still have a decent chance at a hatch survival?
When does the embryo start? (I just got back from Galapagos today!) My egg fell four inches and rolled a few more. In tact. I seek a credentialed, professional's opinion. Thanks, GP.

 

[Tom]

Please no conjecture or generalities? I cannot find any professional, definitive answer to this question: How many
days can a tortoise egg (pancake in this instance) be "rolled" after deposit, and still have a decent chance at a hatch survival?
When does the embryo start? (I just got back from Galapagos today!) My egg fell four inches and rolled a few more. In tact. I seek a credentialed, professional's opinion. Thanks, GP.

There is no such answer because there are too many variables. All you will get is people's opinions based on their experience. There is nothing but conjecture and generalities. Anecdotes, and guesses.

Even if this egg is outside whatever someone tells you is the limit, you should still proceed as if it is viable, because it likely is.

This is not a black and white subject. There are infinite gray areas due to all the variables, and there is much we don't know about tortoise reproduction and egg time frames.

All anyone can tell is will be similar to what I will tell you: I've dropped eggs before and they still hatched. I remove some eggs from the nest holes right after laying, and others sit in the ground for weeks or months at times. I've dropped or rolled each and they still hatched.

What can happen is that once development starts, the embryo attaches to the wall of the egg. If the egg is rotated, dropped, or jostled too much, the embryo can become detached from the wall and die. How hard do you have to jostle, drop, rotate or shake an egg to make the embryo detach? No one can answer that, and it is likely different for different situations.

So when does the embryo attach? Again, no one can say for sure. We can say for sure that it is variable. Some eggs need diapause before development will start. Other eggs delay themselves for reasons unknown, and pancakes are one of these.

 

[Sam & Ella]

There is no such answer because there are too many variables. All you will get is people's opinions based on their experience. There is nothing but conjecture and generalities. Anecdotes, and guesses.

Even if this egg is outside whatever someone tells you is the limit, you should still proceed as if it is viable, because it likely is.

This is not a black and white subject. There are infinite gray areas due to all the variables, and there is much we don't know about tortoise reproduction and egg time frames.

All anyone can tell is will be similar to what I will tell you: I've dropped eggs before and they still hatched. I remove some eggs from the nest holes right after laying, and others sit in the ground for weeks or months at times. I've dropped or rolled each and they still hatched.

What can happen is that once development starts, the embryo attaches to the wall of the egg. If the egg is rotated, dropped, or jostled too much, the embryo can become detached from the wall and die. How hard do you have to jostle, drop, rotate or shake an egg to make the embryo detach? No one can answer that, and it is likely different for different situations.

So when does the embryo attach? Again, no one can say for sure. We can say for sure that it is variable. Some eggs need diapause before development will start. Other eggs delay themselves for reasons unknown, and pancakes are one of these.

Tom, I hoped one of the replies would be yours. A long time nature guide on THE Island told me even a little rotation can be fatal, yet I see videos of sea turtle egg harvesters jostling the eggs around to get to the hatcheries days after the deposits. I "assume" it takes a few days at least before the brew starts. Watching dozens and dozens of one-two-year old Galapies scrambling in their pens was a dream come true. After seven decades of dreaming about them, many times very literally dreams, a reality.

 

[zovick]

Please no conjecture or generalities? I cannot find any professional, definitive answer to this question: How many
days can a tortoise egg (pancake in this instance) be "rolled" after deposit, and still have a decent chance at a hatch survival?
When does the embryo start? (I just got back from Galapagos today!) My egg fell four inches and rolled a few more. In tact. I seek a credentialed, professional's opinion. Thanks, GP.

You didn't mention when the egg was laid. Was it laid the day you returned from the Galapagos?
To your point, embryos usually do not begin to develop noticeably until about 30 days after the eggs have begun incubating. At that point, jarring (or turning over) the egg can break the blood vessels which are feeding the embryo and cause it to die in the egg.

Moving them around in the first few days is not a problem, as is done with sea turtle eggs.

You should be fine, assuming it is within the first 2-3 weeks after it was laid. Just incubate the egg normally and hope for the best.

 

[Sam & Ella]

Tom, I hoped one of the replies would be yours. A long time nature guide on THE Island told me even a little rotation can be fatal, yet I see videos of sea turtle egg harvesters jostling the eggs around to get to the hatcheries days after the deposits. I "assume" it takes a few days at least before the brew starts. Watching dozens and dozens of one-two-year old Galapies scrambling in their pens was a dream come true. After seven decades of dreaming about them, many times very literally dreams, a reality.

PS: "...be fatal" right after the lay.

 

[Sam & Ella]

You didn't mention when the egg was laid. Was it laid the day you returned from the Galapagos?
To your point, embryos usually do not begin to develop noticeably until about 30 days after the eggs have begun incubating. At that point, jarring (or turning over) the egg can break the blood vessels which are feeding the embryo and cause it to die in the egg.

Moving them around in the first few days is not a problem, as is done with sea turtle eggs.

You should be fine, assuming it is within the first 2-3 weeks after it was laid. Just incubate the egg normally and hope for the best.

Yes, one day after. I put the egg in vermiculite in a Styrofoam soup bowl-cup on top of a brick inside a Critter Cage with a 3-year-old pancake to prep a second incubator, and the rascal climbed up and in and spilled it. My bad.

 

[zovick]

Yes, one day after. I put the egg in vermiculite in a Styrofoam soup bowl-cup on top of a brick inside a Critter Cage with a 3-year-old pancake to prep a second incubator, and the rascal climbed up and in and spilled it. My bad.

It should be fine. I would just go ahead and incubate the egg as though nothing had ever happened.

I had a similar experience back in the early 1990's, but with a worse outcome. I placed a Pyxis planicauda egg in a small margarine tub in the enclosure with the female who had laid it so I could make room for it in my incubator. That took all of 5 minutes. When I went back to retrieve the egg, it was on the substrate and cracked open. The female had tipped over the margarine tub and apparently walked on the egg, cracking the very thin shell. There was no way to salvage that egg.

That was my first planicauda egg since the mid-1970's and this was a devastating learning experience.

 

[Tom]

You didn't mention when the egg was laid. Was it laid the day you returned from the Galapagos?
To your point, embryos usually do not begin to develop noticeably until about 30 days after the eggs have begun incubating. At that point, jarring (or turning over) the egg can break the blood vessels which are feeding the embryo and cause it to die in the egg.

Moving them around in the first few days is not a problem, as is done with sea turtle eggs.

You should be fine, assuming it is within the first 2-3 weeks after it was laid. Just incubate the egg normally and hope for the best.

Thanks for sharing this info Mr. Z. I've always heard 24 or 48 hours, but I also know of several instances that disprove that.

 

[wellington]

Those eggs that are shipped by one of our members who's name I can't think of, stork something or tortstork something, wouldn't be able to develop if there wasn't a safe span for turning/flipping. As far as I remember, a few members have been able to hatch them.

 

[motero]

Tortstork ships the eggs rite before they are due to hatch, the baby in most fully developed at that at point.

 

[Markw84]

Please no conjecture or generalities? I cannot find any professional, definitive answer to this question: How many
days can a tortoise egg (pancake in this instance) be "rolled" after deposit, and still have a decent chance at a hatch survival?
When does the embryo start? (I just got back from Galapagos today!) My egg fell four inches and rolled a few more. In tact. I seek a credentialed, professional's opinion. Thanks, GP.

I've transported by car eggs across country just after they were laid. A week in a car with plenty of jostling on bumpy roads and highways. Hatched out beautiful tortoises 120 days later.

I have absolutely no issue with turning eggs in the first few days after laying. However, I am always careful with eggs and avoid turning and jostling beyond that. However, at least a week (probably 2 weeks) after laying and 2 weeks before hatching will not "be fatal".