Desert Tortoise faces threat from its own refuge

[zenoandthetortoise]

Does anyone know if this is true?

Such a misguided and incomprehensible tragedy. So many would provide a home, given the opportunity. I keep waiting for the lump on my throat to go away...

 

[ashleym]

RE: Does anyone know if this is true?

http://www.examiner.com/article/san...sia-of-threatened-tortoises-despite-ap-report

I just read this one also, which seems to be contradicting.

 

[BeeBee*BeeLeaves]

RE: Does anyone know if this is true?

But be sure you never remove one from the wild, because it will be more difficult for the BLM to find and kill it later. And don't breed them, because, you know, they say so.

Stated brilliantly.

 

[ascott]

I wonder if there is an oversight here...there are over a 1000 PET desert torts dropped off at this site annually....seems to me that IS the problem....folks allowing males/females together to continue to perpetuate the problem of the exact "pet tortoise" being staged for death....and, they have been practicing euthanizing the torts for the entire time in operation, this is not a sudden event ABOUT to take place ....there have been many PET torts put down due to their poor health....

Stop breeding them in your back yard!!!!! Then twenty years later have to move and figure "oh well, we will just turn them over to the rescue / RESEARCH center".....

Just stop it already.

 

[BeeBee*BeeLeaves]

Even so, and you make an important and valid point Angela, the bazooka of money they received was what? not enough for education? outreach? more education for keepers that are registered? or chemical sterilization of pet quality, and therefore disposable, tortoises? That is the part that fries me. Tortoises are used for funding and then pet tortoises are used for more funding. Never let that disaster we created and augumented go to waste. Remember, it was the federal government and the mortgage back securities Ponzi scheme that messed up housing and people lost their homes because they fell in that trap. Lost houses, turned in tortoises, to another part of the federal government. Kinda karma-ish but at the expense of tortoise lives. There are a LOT of people out there who would be great keepers if given that chance. The failing here is that money was not used for stewardship, sustainable stewardship that is. The usual US vs Them when it comes to taxpayers that pay the price. Tortoises caught in the middle. And I still want to know why there are so much more "die offs" in California than in Arizona. Anyone? anyone? Bueller? My head says without die off there is not critical need. I truly hope the funding was not obtained that way. By fabricated research. Sorry. So jaded because of this. Looking at you BLM (IRS, NSA, LOL) ... wild mustangs, wolves now tortoises. Thou shalt not use animals. Just simply saying. To them.

 

[Cowboy_Ken]

Written up by Wildlife Biologist Jess Gonynor –McGuire, With a bibliography. Unsolicited by DTCC or me.

This is the kind of information the DTCC should have been giving out in response to the uproar over the tortoises from the beginning. It's their response to the reaction of the plans. The seemingly lack of awareness that this would happen, disregard of the public that has supported them in the past, that has caused this.

Not one sentence "Yes we have been working on those questions for months" answers to people. People who wrote letters asking specific questions about the decision making process, the logistics, potential problems, offering help with those problems.

Closing down all phones directly to DTCC. Shutting down all contact to the public except through the media. It just makes one wonder. Many, loudly. Excuse the metaphor "why are they hiding in their burrows?"


Chelonian Upper Respiratory Tract Disease

Tortoise Upper Respiratory Tract Disease and why it is important that we support the staff at the Desert Tortoise Conservation Center.
There has been quite a bit of chatter about the Desert Tortoise Conservation Center and their tortoises. I think it would be helpful for people to research what the DTCC does on a daily basis. Their blog http://blogs.sandiegozoo.org/tag/san-diego-zoos-desert-tortoise-conservation-center/ would probably be a great place to start. Not only are they housing displaced tortoises, they are also trying to address critical research needs, which range from animal behavior to disease ecology.
I feel compelled to get some of this information out there in hopes of helping the public understand what is going on. I am writing from my experience with the gopher tortoise and I am in no way affiliated with the DTCC. I have however spent some time in the desert and I have interacted with the staff a number of times and have seen their work presented at scientific conferences.
So what? The tortoises just have a cold!
Not as simple as some are making it sound. The primary disease we generally associate with our North American tortoises is Mycoplasma induced Upper Respiratory Tract Disease. However, there are a suite of other pathogens that might be impacting health and causing clinical disease, including herpes, ranavirus, and fungal infections (the list goes on!). My research experience is with the gopher tortoise (Gopherus polyphemus), a tortoise species in the southeastern United States. However, the effects of the disease are similar.
External clinical signs include (but are not limited to) nasal exudate (clear to thick mucus- aka. snotty noses), weeping/red swollen eyes, labored/ wheezy breathing, lethargy, encrusted/sealed eyes, etc. In some cases these clinical signs can be temporarily relieved, but in most cases clinical signs return. Some tortoises get runny noses so often that it actually scars their nares and erodes the skin. Tortoises with chronic weepy eyes might even get white rings around the eyes over time as well. Therefore it is inhumane to release these tortoises into the wild (and dangerous to healthy animals in the wild) or rehome them with inexperienced handlers.


Note the loss of pigment between the nares (nose holes) of the tortoise on the left. The tortoise on the right really needs no explanation as this tortoise has thick mucus discharge from the nares.
The signs we can't see are the internal effects of disease. An important part of what the DTCC is doing is documenting these effects. Tortoises that experience recurrent clinical disease possible experience and increase in lung tissue scarring over time, resulting in a decrease in lung function. In my experience with gopher tortoises (Gopherus polyphemus) with URTD, they are emaciated (anorexic) and have minimal fat tissue (which might make it difficult for tortoises to get through colder months/ decrease fitness). The nasal cavity is often scarred and eroded (which might decrease their sensitivity to smell). We find mineral deposits, such as bladder stones (which might create a blockage). There are still many things that we don't know about these diseases or even how necropsy findings relate to health. I am sure there are a number of pathogens still left to discover!
Why can’t they just release all of the tortoises? Why are they being so strict about who can adopt?
My next point: releasing pets. The origins of many tortoises in captivity are unknown (collected from the wild? Bred in captivity?). This is regardless of the species we are talking about. There are hypotheses out there that some of the disease we are seeing in our native tortoises (such as the desert and gopher tortoise) is due to exotic tortoises being released into the wild (this hasn't been proven). For example, our native tortoises may have been exposed to new pathogens from other countries through imported animals. That being said, how many times do we hear reports of a tortoise/ turtle that has escaped from the yard (I took a break from writing this to deal with one!). I constantly get calls about Sulcatas being found out and about (note: this is the AFRICAN spurred tortoise (Geochelone sulacata). There is no telling what conditions these escapees were kept in or what pathogens they were exposed to in captivity. It is not uncommon for people to keep different species together. This poses a real threat to our free-ranging chelonians should pets be released. The amphibian decline due to the chytrid fungus Batrachochytrium dendrobatidis comes to mind. I am not even going to go into ranavirus or herpes, both of which are growing concerns (check out what is going on with box turtles (Terrapene carolina) and ranavirus!. THERE IS CURRENTLY NO CURE FOR URTD. With the help from an experienced veterinarian the clinical signs from a bacterial infection (such as from Mycoplasma sp.) can be alleviated, but the tortoises will usually get sick again in the future. This kind of care might be reasonable for a responsible pet owner, but will not be possible for tortoises that are released in the wild.
When the DTCC is reporting that the animal is sick, I have every confidence that they have done the best that they could to evaluate the fitness of the animal for release. The people at the DTCC are passionate and love the tortoises. URTD is not much different than pneumonia in humans. Similarly in humans, the severity of disease can vary from individual to individual. This ability to recover from disease can range due to age, stress, history, co-infection with other unknown pathogens, etc. What is so concerning about URTD, particularly in free-ranging animals is that we know so little. The DTCC is on a mission to work some of this out. URTD can be as simple as a pesky lingering cold to some or might lead to death. In fact, tortoises might suffer with severe clinical disease for months before dying (I want you to envision an emaciated, snotty (or completely stuffed up), blind tortoise (eyes are sealed with crust) wandering around, it isn't pretty, and it is inhumane to let it go. Imagine the other animals this tortoise might come across in its aimless disoriented wandering!

This is a tortoise that I was tracking as part of my dissertation work. You can see the transmitter epoxied to the carapace. Note the swollen eye and snotty nose. This tortoise was out wandering in habitat that was not suitable for tortoises.
There are a few things that we need to do to help the plight of our north american tortoises (and tortoise species abroad). We need to educate the public about the effects of taking tortoises out of the wild. We also need to encourage people not to release pets into the wild under any circumstances. There are networks of organizations out there that will take these pets and the word needs to get out. If you are a local organization that will take unwanted pets, is your local animal officer aware of this? Is your state wildlife agency aware of your specialization with herps (be sure to have the proper permits). The word needs to get out to that unless the exact location where the animal is found, it should not be released, especially tortoises with signs of illness. This decision should rest with the state agencies. We need to be responsible with this, and while the outcome might be sad for the individual, it is our responsibility to protect the species.
I hope this clears some issues up about the disease and release issues. This is a complex issue that needs attention. For more information please visit the Southeastern Partners in Amphibian and Reptile Conservation Disease Task Team website to learn more about disease. http://www.separc.org/products/diseases-and-parasites-of-herpetofauna For more information about the gopher tortoise visit the Gopher Tortoise Council main page: http://www.gophertortoisecouncil.org/. The Desert Tortoise Council also has a page and can be found at http://www.deserttortoise.org/

I am currently in the middle of launching the Gopher Tortoise Health Working Group. If people are interested, I will work on posting relevant papers over the next few days. This is a very raw work in progress, but I would rather the information get out there! We will be meeting at the upcoming Gopher Tortoise Council meeting in October 2013. https://sites.google.com/site/gtortoisehealthwg/home

Disclaimers: I am in no way affiliated with the DTCC but I am familiar with their work. I have been researching URTD in the gopher tortoise, but not the desert tortoise. The opinions expressed in this blog are my personal opinions/ observations. Please feel free to ask questions in the comments section below.

Jess Gonynor –McGuire, PhD
Wildlife Biologist
[email protected]

Some light reading:
Berry, K.H., and M. M. Christopher. 2001. Guidelines for the field evaluation of desert tortoise health and disease. Journal of Wildlife Disease 37: 427–450.
Brown, M. B., G. S. McLauglin, P. A. Klein, B. C. Crenshaw, I. M. Schumacher, D. R. Brown, and E. R. Jacobson, 1999. Upper respiratory tract disease in the gopher tortoise is caused by Mycoplasma agassizii. Journal of Clinical Microbiology:2262–2269.


Brown, M. B., I. M. Schumacher, P.A. Klein, K. Harris, T. Correll, and E. R. Jacobson. 1994. Mycoplasma agassizii causes upper respiratory tract disease in the desert tortoise. Infection and Immunity 62: 4580-4586.

Diemer- Berish, J.E., L. D. Wendland, C. A. Gates. 2000. Distribution and prevalence of upper respiratory tract disease in gopher tortoises in Florida. Journal of Herpetology Vol. 34:5-12

Diemer-Berish, J.E., L.D. Wendland, R.A. Kiltie, E. P. Garrison and C.A. Gates. 2010. Effects of mycoplasmal upper respiratory tract disease on morbidity and mortality of gopher tortoises in northern and central Florida. Journal of Wildlife Diseases 46:695-705.

Diemer-Berish, J.E., R.A. Kiltie, and T.M. Thomas. 2012. Long-term population dynamics of gopher tortoises (Gopherus polyphemus) in a pine plantation in northern Florida. Chelonian Conservation and Biology 11:50-58.

Feldman, S.H., J. Wimsatt, R. E. Marchang, A. J. Johnson, W. Brown, J.C. Mitchell, and J.M. Sleeman. 2006. A novel Mycoplasma detected in association with upper respiratory disease syndrome in free-ranging eastern box turtles (Terrapene carolina carolina) in Virginia. Journal of Wildlife Diseases 42: 279-289.

Gates, C. A., M. J. Allen, J. E. D. Berish, D. M. Stillwaugh, AND S. R. Shattler. 2002. Characterization of a gopher tortoise mortality event in west-central Florida. Florida Scientist 65: 185–197.

Jacobson, E.R. and K.H. Berry. 2012. Mycoplasma testudineum in free-ranging desert tortoises, Gopherus agassizii. Journal of Wildlife Diseases. 48: 1063-1068.

Jacobson, E.R., M. B. Brown, I. M. Schumacher, B. R.Collins, R. K. Harris, and P. A. Klein.

1995. Mycoplasmosis and the desert tortoise (Gopherus agassizii) in Las Vegas Valley,

Nevada. Chelonian Conservation and Biology 1: 279–284.

Jacobson, E.R., J.M. Gaskin, M.B. Brown, R.K. Harris, C.H. Gardiner, J.L. LaPointe, H.P. Adams and C. Reggiardo. 1991. Chronic upper respiratory tract disease of free-ranging desert tortoises (Xerobates agassizii). Journal of Wildlife Diseases 27: 296-316.


Johnson A.J., Wendland L., Norton T.M., Belzer W., Jacobson E.R., 2010. Development and use of an indirect enzyme-linked immunosorbent assay for detection of Iridovirus exposure in gopher tortoises (Gopherus polyphemus) and Eastern box turtles (Terrapene carolina carolina). Veterinary Microbiology. 142:160-167.

McCoy, E. D., H.R. Mushinsky, and J. Lindzey. 2007. Conservation strategies and emergent diseases: The case of upper respiratory tract disease in the gopher tortoise. Chelonian Conservation and Biology 6:170-176.

McLaughlin, G.S., E.R. Jacobson, D.R. Brown, C.E. McKenna, I.M. Schumacher, H.P. Adams, M.B. Brown, and P.A. Klein. 2000. Pathology of upper respiratory tract disease of gopher tortoises in Florida. Journal of Wildlife Diseases 36:272-283.

Ozgul, A., M.D, Oli, B.B. Bolker and C. Perez-Heydrich. 2009. Upper respiratory tract disease, force of infection, and effects on survival of gopher tortoises. Ecological Applications 19:786-798.


Perez- Heydrich, C., M.K. Oli, and M.B. Brown. 2012. Population-level influence of a recurring diseases on a long-lived wildlife host. Oikos 121:377-388.

Sandmeier F.C., C.R. Tracy CR, S. duPre, K. Hunter. 2009. Upper respiratory tract disease (URTD) as a threat to desert tortoise populations: A reevaluation. Biological Conservation 142: 1255-1268


Seigel, R. A., R.B. Smith, and N. A. Seigel. 2003. Swine flu or 1918 pandemic? Upper respiratory tract disease and the sudden mortality of gopher tortoises (Gopherus polyphemus) on a protected habitat in Florida. Journal of Herpetology 37:137-144.

Schumacher, I.M., M.B. Brown, E.R. Jacobson, B.R. Collins, and P.A. Klein. 1993. Detection of antibodies to a pathogenic Mycoplasma in desert tortoise (Gopherus agassizii) with upper respiratory tract disease. Journal of Clinical Microbiology 31: 1454-1460


Schumacher, I.M., D. B. Hardenbrook, M.B. Brown, E.R. Jacobson, and P.A. Klein. 1997. Relationship between clinical signs of upper respiratory tract disease and antibodies to Mycoplasma agassizii in desert tortoises from Nevada. Journal of Wildlife Diseases 33:261-266.

Wendland, L.D. 2007. Epidemiology of mycoplasmal upper respiratory tract disease in tortoises. PhD Dissertation, University of Florida, Gainesville, Florida.


Wendland, L., P.A. Klein, E.R. Jacobson, and M.B. Brown. 2010. Strain variation in Mycoplasma agassizii and distinct host antibody responses explain differences between ELISA and Western blot assays. Clinical Vaccine Immunology 17:1739-1745.



https://sites.google.com/site/gtortoisehealthwg/relevent-papers--protocols

 

[ascott]

the bazooka of money they received was what? not enough for education? outreach? more education for keepers that are registered? or chemical sterilization of pet quality, and therefore disposable, tortoises?

Please first understand, I find any of these "organization" a disgusting money train...there is no interest ever on their part for true conservation and preservation ....there just is not.

That is not to say that there are some poor schmuck biologists with hopes of saving the species lost somewhere in that pile of crap---however, there are very few true from the heart biologists (as most are on the payroll of the money train--so yes, there is ethical conflict there).

We know where the torts natural live, we know so much so that it is clearly mapped off, clearly documented for years, in great detail....there is an easy fix....don't use those few areas....don't allow military games in those spots, don't allow express trains to go through those areas, don't let solar projects go up in those areas....and some of the money trainers will say "but those are the only places to do this "b&((^hit", to take the words I have read many times from Tom D) this is a big world and it is not all used up. We have a tremendous amount of technology, machinery and truly an unlimited money flow (this proven with all the money wasted thus far up to date).....all we have to do, the most simple, cost efficient thing to do is---leave those clearly documented, mapped and designated areas alone.

Now, I know, this is an idealistic way to thing huh? Just leave those few areas alone. Let the torts strive and thrive in those areas---of course there will be theft of them from folks, of course there will be natural selection of the wild, of course there will be disease waves from time to time due to a variety of factors--weather, plant variations that occur during evolutionary steps---there will be things that we humans have not business monkeying with---let life live and die....but for us to come in and decidedly rape the ground of all living creatures simply for our exploitation will prove also to be our downfall....we need to stop.

Now, we need to be responsible for our actions....we need to help support the chances for the natural population to remain as healthy as possible....we need to stop backyard breeding these regal creatures...with every captive tort we encourage we are signing the fate for another with its life....

The mass majority of torts that are turned in are PET (and I hate this word for a wild animal) torts, wether that pet tort was ever wild then FORCED into captivity or a result of already captive adults....those will likely be the ones that make up the "unhealthy" groups that later get referred to and are euthanized....now, some of those torts should be released from their misery and as humanely euthanized. I am sick to my stomach to imagine the mass amount of torts that have been and will continue to be euthanized. Also, the ones that are showing signs of the URI are subjected to relentless testing of a variety of chemicals, medications and handling to see how the disease progresses and its results---this I find deplorable as well, they are once again subjected to our desires...

It has been found that almost every Desert Tort tested has the disease laying dormant in their make up....and it is triggered by stress....a perfectly healthy, energetic and productive tort can be brought to the brink of death merely by applying stress.

Now, so when they say "unhealthy" torts are subject to being euthanized I am angered....this is again the way that they can bring their facility population down to a cost effective number while tearing at the hearts of some human populations by saying no healthy ones will be put down but only the unhealthy ones showing the disease in their testing will be put down....this is BS as most have this dormant factor,..

Also, I wonder---if they have 1400 torts in that compound, yet they say they get 1000 per year...minus some adoptions---how is it that they only have 1400 torts? And they are trying to lead folks to believe that they are just now going to be euthanizing sick torts....really, what have they been doing all along?

 

[BeeBee*BeeLeaves]

Excellent additional insight to the conversation Cowboy_Ken and ascott. Thought provoking. Thank you both so much!

 

[Terry Allan Hall]

Terry, you are so funny "in every country". Were you thinking about the gopherus we have seen from Spain and Germany? But yes, if they cannot go back into the wild and there are people in every state - looking at you Jacqui - who would be happy to be their hosts THE LAWS NEED TO CHANGE for their well being. They can be chipped so that we know who committed to their care and by penalty of law if they are found in the wilds, you have some serious esplaining to do. Education is everything but our dear leaders think the People do not how to do this right. Or they simply do not want to partner with the taxpayers so that they do not have to share these serious a-$$ funding they get from the very people that want to do right by the disposable pet tortoises. Oh man, if I was queen ...

I know of several Europeans who would love to give these "orphan" tortoises loving forever homes, much as many of us North Americans have given homes to European, African, Asian, and South American tortoises...what's the problem?

Time to work on changing this foolish law.

 

[Cowboy_Ken]

Here's a heads up. If someone lives in Arizona, could you please contact AG&F dept. to research this Craigslist add?

http://yuma.craigslist.org/pet/4041265298.html

 

[Cowboy_Ken]

Support Flows in for Sick Desert Tortoises

Time.com, by Hannah Dreier, AP, 8/29/13 Las Vegas — News that hundreds of threatened desert tortoises face euthanasia with the pending closure of a refuge near Las Vegas has generated a storm of reaction that has government officials scrambling to find alternatives and fielding offers from people wishing to adopt the reptiles or make donations.

The Associated Press reported this week that the Desert Tortoise Conservation Center, which has sheltered thousands of displaced tortoises for 23 years, is scheduled to close in 2014 as funding runs out.

As the location just south of Las Vegas begins to ramp down, it is euthanizing tortoises deemed too unhealthy to return to the wild. Healthy tortoises won’t be killed.

U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service desert tortoise recovery coordinator Roy Averill-Murray estimated last week that about 50 percent to 60 percent of the 1,400 tortoises that live at the refuge were sick. Such tortoises cannot be released into the wild because they could infect their healthy wild brethren.

The estimate prompted a public outcry and debate among the various agencies connected to the refuge about the number of at-risk tortoises. It also forced the agency to issue a statement assuring the public that no healthy tortoises will be killed but saying that euthanasia is the only option for many of the animals because they are sick. Fish and Wildlife also assigned four people to field calls and put a message about the situation on its spokeswoman’s answering machine.

Deputy Fish and Wildlife Service director Carolyn Wells said Wednesday that the 50 percent estimate of sick tortoises at the facility may be correct, but added that not all of the ailing animals will be killed. Some of them could potentially go to research facilities, she said, though she could not say how many, and she does not yet have commitments from biologists.

Fish and Wildlife operates the center in conjunction with the San Diego Zoo.

Allyson Walsh, associate director for the zoo’s Institute for Conservation Research, said just 30 percent of the residents are receiving medical treatment, though some others have been quarantined and need new evaluations.

“The ones that don’t get better and that are sick and suffering will probably be euthanized because that’s the sensible thing to do,” she said.

She disputed the notion that budget cuts are forcing the reptiles to be put down. Although the center has housed sickly tortoises for years, Walsh said they eventually would have been euthanized anyway.

Walsh said sick tortoises cannot be adopted out and she has not been contacted by any researchers interested in taking in the sick animals.

“That’s a possibility but we wouldn’t transfer an animal to anyone who was doing destructive research,” she said.

The right thing to do for a sick animal is euthanize it, she said.

Seth Webster disagrees.

Webster, a 36 year old programmer from New York, created a Change.org petition that together with a similar one on the site has drawn more than 3,000 signatures. He said he is working with a Florida tortoise refuge that recently bought land in Nevada to see if Fish and Wildlife will transfer the tortoises, or at least let an outside evaluator decide which animals are so sick they should be killed.

“Animals have a very strong will to survive,” he said. “These tortoises live to 100 years. If we euthanize him, are we robbing him of 30 years? It doesn’t seem fair to euthanize them just because the tortoises are sick and someone ran out of money.”

Desert tortoises have made their rocky homes in Utah, California, Arizona and Nevada for 200 million years. But the prehistoric animal has some unfortunate evolutionary quirks, including a susceptibility to flu-like respiratory infections and difficulties settling in to new homes. They are also sensitive to change as the tortoises sometimes dehydrate themselves by voiding a year’s worth of stored water when handled.

These weaknesses have combined with widespread habitat destruction in the quickly developing Southwest to dramatically reduce the tortoises’ numbers.

The Bureau of Land Management has partially funded the conservation center through fees imposed on developers who disturb tortoise habitat, but when the housing bubble burst several years ago, that funding dropped far below what was needed to run the center.

“Here’s an upside to this. It’s gone international,” U.S. Fish and Wildlife spokeswoman Jeannie Stafford said. “We have gotten hundreds of people saying they would like to adopt. Thousands of people signing petitions. It’s been people wanting to help us with the situation.”

But most of the would-be tortoise Good Samaritans cannot actually adopt the animals. Federal laws intended to protect the reptiles ban their transportation across state lines.

People who live in Nevada can adopt the slowpokes through the Desert Tortoise Group. But they should know that owners who kill or release their long-lived pets could face prison time.

The Humane Society of the United States is setting up a fund this week for out-of-staters who want to help but cannot take a tortoise home.

Despite the overwhelming response, the Bureau of Land Management is not reconsidering its plan to pull funding that goes toward the center’s $1 million annual budget.

“Although it’s wonderful that people want to give money, it won’t change the outcome for the Desert Conservation Center,” BLM spokeswoman Erica Haspiel-Szlosek said. “There just isn’t money to keep it going, nor is it really the best use of conservation funds.”

The agency plans to redirect the $810 fee that developers pay for each acre of tortoise habitat they disturb to environmental preservation efforts.

The center has historically taken in about 1,000 tortoises a year, but will stop accepting new residents in coming months.

 

[BeeBee*BeeLeaves]

All, sharing, wrote a letter to Bayer Animal Health and although I know that there are reports of some species being allergic (leopard tortoises) to the Baytril remedy for URTD (upper respiratory tract disease), I asked (maybe I pleaded) for their corporate help with our beloved desert tortoises held captive in Nevada. Pun intended.

My feeling is this: Step aside, we'll privatize.

I have also asked the help of the Trust for Public Land in acquiring safe land for the unwild enough tortoises. After all, they are still supposed to be protected and are still state reptiles, regardless of captivity status.

In a perfect dream, there can be a cross platform partnership between major corporations, national non profit and most obviously the Nevada local non profits, who can work at the trenches on site, to help. Obviously, BLM and others cannot be trusted to help the lowly pet quality chelonians that are our beloved desert tortoises of gopherus persuasion. Yes, I said that sarcastically.

If anyone has any ideas of who else can be approached for partnerships. Please share here.

I went to the other side of the pond for a perfect quote:

Cromwell said to the Long Parliament when he thought it was no longer fit to conduct the affairs of the nation,' You have sat too long here for any good you have been doing. Depart, I say, and let us have done with you. In the name of God, go!'
— Leo(pold) Charles Maurice Stennett Amery
Remark addressed to Prime Minister Neville Chamberlain,
House of Commons, 7 May.

I might be a bit harsh but I think that happens when you are mad about tortoises with colds being killed.

Press on ... Fight on ...

 

[BeeBee*BeeLeaves]

Bayer Animal Health responded and they are forwarding my request for CEO/Board consideration! Yay.
Received from Managing Director: Dr. Dirk Ehle
Registered Office: Leverkusen, Local Court Cologne, HRB 52145
Chipping away.
Happy. Woo hoo happy. Fingers crossed!

 

[sissyofone]

Thats Awesome ..Fingers, legs, and toes crossed.

Sent from my X501_USA_Cricket using TortForum mobile app

 

[thatrebecca]

Well it took some effort -- and a commitment to pursue another assignment while I'm there -- but my LA Times editors are sending me to Vegas for this story. If you are a DT keeper in Nevada and would be comfortable being interviewed for this piece, please PM me. And thanks, everybody, for such informative and thoughtful posts on this topic.

 

[ascott]

she has not been contacted by any researchers interested in taking in the sick animals.

but we wouldn’t transfer an animal to anyone who was doing destructive research

not all of the ailing animals will be killed. Some of them could potentially go to research facilities,

I am amazed that these statements were actually made and allowed to be printed....especially since this facility "donates" the healthy torts to research---in which they are purposely made sick by the disease so that the pattern of the disease can be studied---this is how the futile directions to use antibiotics on an ailing tort has come around....we all know that this is a viral issue---antibiotics don't cure a virus---so what idiots do they think are believing this nonsense....

Again, here is yet another public outcry---which will be acknowledged, fluffed and folded and then the crowds will disperse--as usual....

This place has been in business for 23 years....and they have 1400 torts to show for it?----and they lay claim to half being scheduled to die---I would love for them to have to show what has happened to the torts over the years....how many infected for research, how many of those infected euthanized and then chopped up for research.....how many have been adopted out....how many have been infected....then treated over a 6 to 9 month period--to clear clinical signs of the disease and then placed back with infected groups to see if they are now immune.... wow, surprise--they are not...all that this facility has done is operated as a huge research center behind the fluff that it is a rehab center...again, with the torts serving as objects and for profit...research is a big dollar business...imagine all the companies that profit from vets saying "it is a URI so lets start antibiotics" (without testing more times than not) each and every one of the pharmaceutical companies I am sure have acquired many torts for this purpose....and here we are, with no cure still ---but lots of antibiotics for a viral issue....

---

Also, it takes a different amount of chemical/medication to euthanize a reptile...this can get costly, especially for a treatment center following low on funds.....how bout giving the number of torts that they freeze in place vs money spent to euthanize....this is a fools story for certain....

 

[BeeBee*BeeLeaves]

Well it took some effort -- and a commitment to pursue another assignment while I'm there -- but my LA Times editors are sending me to Vegas for this story. If you are a DT keeper in Nevada and would be comfortable being interviewed for this piece, please PM me. And thanks, everybody, for such informative and thoughtful posts on this topic.

Rad news! Thank you editors ... so much! Rolling. This spider web of a story is unfolding and hopefully the little tortoises will win from all of this collective effort! : )

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she has not been contacted by any researchers interested in taking in the sick animals.

but we wouldn’t transfer an animal to anyone who was doing destructive research

not all of the ailing animals will be killed. Some of them could potentially go to research facilities,

I am amazed that these statements were actually made and allowed to be printed....especially since this facility "donates" the healthy torts to research---in which they are purposely made sick by the disease so that the pattern of the disease can be studied---this is how the futile directions to use antibiotics on an ailing tort has come around....we all know that this is a viral issue---antibiotics don't cure a virus---so what idiots do they think are believing this nonsense....

Again, here is yet another public outcry---which will be acknowledged, fluffed and folded and then the crowds will disperse--as usual....

This place has been in business for 23 years....and they have 1400 torts to show for it?----and they lay claim to half being scheduled to die---I would love for them to have to show what has happened to the torts over the years....how many infected for research, how many of those infected euthanized and then chopped up for research.....how many have been adopted out....how many have been infected....then treated over a 6 to 9 month period--to clear clinical signs of the disease and then placed back with infected groups to see if they are now immune.... wow, surprise--they are not...all that this facility has done is operated as a huge research center behind the fluff that it is a rehab center...again, with the torts serving as objects and for profit...research is a big dollar business...imagine all the companies that profit from vets saying "it is a URI so lets start antibiotics" (without testing more times than not) each and every one of the pharmaceutical companies I am sure have acquired many torts for this purpose....and here we are, with no cure still ---but lots of antibiotics for a viral issue....

---

Also, it takes a different amount of chemical/medication to euthanize a reptile...this can get costly, especially for a treatment center following low on funds.....how bout giving the number of torts that they freeze in place vs money spent to euthanize....this is a fools story for certain....

---

Again, you make excellent points Angela. Absolutely right. There is more outrage to be had than just about the money and what has been done with 3 figure millions. As stated earlier in this thread, audit(s) is/are in order.

Collective thinking.
A good thing.
Fight on for the sweet little gopherus! Yes we do!

 

[BeeBee*BeeLeaves]

Nevada Statute 503-600:
"It shall be unlawful to catch or kill the desert tortoise or terrestrial turtle in the State of Nevada."
Is this pertinent to euthanizations past and euthanizations present and future?

 

[BeeBee*BeeLeaves]

Copy and pasting here also for added punch.
I was 42,880 ... woo hoo! Thank you Laura!

Petition to stop euthanization of any desert torts
also at, http://www.tortoiseforum.org/thread-78682.html

I just signed the petition "Stop the planned killing of desert tortoises" on Change.org.
It's important. Will you sign it too? Here's the link:

http://www.change.org/petitions/stop-the...e_petition
Thanks! Laura

 

[BeeBee*BeeLeaves]

Here are more petition links to chose from. For some reason the one above is gone. For sure they reached their goal of 45,000. I was 42,880 ... yay! We need to keep the pressure up.

As recently as two weeks ago a Las Vegas resident was turning in a healthy juvenile was told they would accept it but more than likely have to euthanize it when they closed. I said a healthy juvenile folks. That's right.

If you are so inclined, here we go:

http://www.change.org/search?utf8=✓&q=desert+tortoise