Do females bite eachother?

[NeekoBe]

This might be a wierd question but...

I just caught my 'new' tortoise nipping at the smaller one after a 'head bob'.
I know two males means trouble, also a male and a female means trouble. This is why i made sure the one i had was female(confirmed by a reptile vet) before getting a new one (that is also female presumed female).

When i introduced the new(bigger) tortoise, The smaller one was 'head bobbing' at it. but it has never bitten the big tortoise.

Then months went by... without issues.

Today, i caught the big one 'head bobbing' and actually nipping at the smaller one.
the smaller one doesnt seem to be too bothered and doesn't avoid the big one (keeps running up to it).

So the question is: Is it possible two females can harras eachother too?

Heres a video of the big one bobbing and nipping :

(bobbing around 00:25, biting around 00:45)

I attached a picture of the underside of the 'big' tort... It does look female to me, but if someone else has a different opinion, feel free to tell me.

 

[Maro2Bear]

Sounds and looks like a classic case of bullying going on here. Competition for food, water, best spot to sleep or hide. Just imagine the non-visual bullying going on as well. Time to separate....torts don’t want “friends”.

Happy Torting

Ps - welcome to the Forum!

 

[NeekoBe]

Maro,

I know i'll have to separate them I was hoping to avoid it (its why i got two of everything -> lamps, food,hides,...).

i'm just wondering if it is a known phenomenon between female tortoises?

And thanks ^^ long time lurker, first time poster

 

[Cheryl Hills]

You really need to seperate these two tortoises. That is aggression and can kill them.

 

[Maro2Bear]

Maro,

I know i'll have to separate them I was hoping to avoid it (its why i got two of everything -> lamps, food,hides,...).

i'm just wondering if it is a known phenomenon between female tortoises?

Yes...it’s known phenomenon. It’s how the big one is displaying it’s aggression. Bite, nip, a foot swipe, chasing. Etc.

 

[Gillian M]

I can only confirm what @Maro2Bear and @Cheryl said: torts do not want/need company. Please separate your cute torts asap.

Any pics of enclosures?

And a very warm welcome to the forum.

 

[Yvonne G]

Yes, because tortoises are territorial, it doesn't matter that it's two females. Tortoises want to be alone in their territory, even female tortoises.

Another thing to mention is that when a female is ready to lay eggs she gets aggressive like this.

 

[NeekoBe]

Hey guys,

I've done a quick fix for the old enclosure, i just bought a house and am moving next month -> I will be building a much bigger enclosure there (80x80cm for each tort).

Heres a few pics of the old enclousure with the quick fix, let me know what you think!
(I'm not sure about the uvb lamp -> it now shines directly onto the wooden plank...

P.S: I know they dont have 'hides'. I've built a few of them in the past and they never seem to like pre-fab hides... they just have a favourite corner and burrow themselves in at night.

 

[Tom]

Tortoises should never be kept in pairs. The sexes and ages don't matter, as you are witnessing first hand.

Further, most vets know very little about tortoise care. The exception would be a vet who is also one of us. A tortoise keeper with years of experience and trial and error under their belt. Related to this point is the fact that most juveniles look female-ish, until they get closer to maturity and the adult hormones start flowing and bringing about the secondary sexual characteristics that make it possible to tell and adult male from an adult female. As babies and young juveniles, they all look the same and the sexes are frequently mis-identified. But the tortoises know...

 

[SweetGreekTorts]

I agree with all the suggestions to separate.

Even as babies they can display bullying.

I have two Russians, same clutch, hatched on same day, and both are in their own enclosures. One was growing faster than the other because the smaller one was always hiding and would not want to eat or bask (that's my red flag signal that bullying is going on). They were only a couple months old at the time (and only 5 months old right now) but I separated them. Now the smaller one is catching up in size, and she spends time eating, basking, and wandering her enclosure instead of hiding.

 

[LaLaP]

I just wanted to point out that your UVB light isn't effective at that height. Most bulbs need to be about 12 inches from the tortoise in order for them to get anything out of it. What kind of bulb is it? If it is a coil style bulb that is also problematic. They have been known to cause eye problems.

 

[NeekoBe]

I just wanted to point out that your UVB light isn't effective at that height. Most bulbs need to be about 12 inches from the tortoise in order for them to get anything out of it. What kind of bulb is it? If it is a coil style bulb that is also problematic. They have been known to cause eye problems.

It's a solar glo 160W MVB.

If you look at the instructions, perfect height for a russian tort is 70CM....

Is it too high?

 

[Tom]

It's a solar glo 160W MVB.

If you look at the instructions, perfect height for a russian tort is 70CM....

Is it too high?

Only a UV meter and thermometer can answer this question. 70 seems too high to me. The normal recommendation for a 160 watt flood is 18 inches or 46cm.

What is the basking temperature directly under the bulb? Got a UV meter?

 

[NeekoBe]

Only a UV meter and thermometer can answer this question. 70 seems too high to me. The normal recommendation for a 160 watt flood is 18 inches or 46cm.

What is the basking temperature directly under the bulb? Got a UV meter?

No UV meter. Temp is +- 28°C under UVB 32 ish under heat lamp

 

[Tom]

No UV meter. Temp is +- 28°C under UVB 32 ish under heat lamp

I like a basking temp of 36-37 directly under the bulb, personally.

 

[NeekoBe]

I move houses with a new enclosure the 25th of february-ish. I'll keep your advice in mind

So the UVB -> hang it way lower? even though the box says no? And when it hangs lower -> higher temp, so no more need for heat lamp i spose?

 

[LaLaP]

I move houses with a new enclosure the 25th of february-ish. I'll keep your advice in mind

So the UVB -> hang it way lower? even though the box says no? And when it hangs lower -> higher temp, so no more need for heat lamp i spose?

I'm sorry, I didn't realize it is an MVB bulb. I don't really know that much about the height and UVB output on those. If you search the lighting section you may find information from members who have that bulb. Again, sorry that I spoke before knowing.

 

[NeekoBe]

I'm sorry, I didn't realize it is an MVB bulb. I don't really know that much about the height and UVB output on those. If you search the lighting section you may find information from members who have that bulb. Again, sorry that I spoke before knowing.

That's ok It's smart to look at ways to improve the enclosure either way

 

[DesertGirl]

This might be a wierd question but...

I just caught my 'new' tortoise nipping at the smaller one after a 'head bob'.
I know two males means trouble, also a male and a female means trouble. This is why i made sure the one i had was female(confirmed by a reptile vet) before getting a new one (that is also female presumed female).

When i introduced the new(bigger) tortoise, The smaller one was 'head bobbing' at it. but it has never bitten the big tortoise.

Then months went by... without issues.

Today, i caught the big one 'head bobbing' and actually nipping at the smaller one.
the smaller one doesnt seem to be too bothered and doesn't avoid the big one (keeps running up to it).

So the question is: Is it possible two females can harras eachother too?

Heres a video of the big one bobbing and nipping :

(bobbing around 00:25, biting around 00:45)

I attached a picture of the underside of the 'big' tort... It does look female to me, but if someone else has a different opinion, feel free to tell me.

I used to care for some desert torts for the BLM. They had 8 females together and a separate male. One day I watched one female literally chase another female around their sizable enclosure. One rammed and rammed the other one until she flipped her. I know this is anthropomorphic but the flipper seemed real pleased with herself as she turned tail and walked off with head held high.

 

[jUMPSu1t]

Yes, it is very possible for girls to bully each other. I brought a (female) Sulcata tortoise named Dribble home for about two weeks in summer, since she is a class pet and needs to be taken care of. We have a fenced-in “tortoise run” where my torts can play in the summer, so I brought Dribble and my male-female pair, Crystal and Prism. For a few minutes, Dribble nipped at the other two, fighting Prism (male) into submission and making Crystal (female) nip her back. We had to fence them off.