Does fast growth lead to pyramiding?

[labanog]

Hi just wondering noticed my Sully are starting to have bumps and to pyramid, but sofar did the correct steps like

-Closer enclosure
-greenery and grass w mizuri
-located in phil so temps are 85c-90c
-humidty in enclosure is 80-90%
- daily baths in the sun for 20-30min, temp in the sun range around 90-100c
-no UVB since I do daily sunbath
-have cuttlebone in enclosure
-enclosure is around 1meters x .6meters

so im guessing maybe the eat to many? maybe i should lessen the food? they are roughly around 6 months old, 7cm long.

should i let them eat less daily?
also are sully heavier than other torts? i have some IS and Leos that are 1 yr old already, bigger then the sullys but are lighter? are sullys more massly packed torts? they feel like a small rock hehe

 

[wellington]

Post pics of enclosure. So far fast growth has not been associated with pyramiding.
Sulcatas get much bigger than leopards so likely will feel heavier.
You are not housing different species together I hope?
Also, not housing pairs correct?

 

[TammyJ]

If I have learned one thing on this site it's that Pyramiding is Caused by Growth in Dry Conditions. So perhaps some of your instruments are giving you incorrect readings, or your lights are wrong, or too much time is spent outside.

 

[Tom]

Hi just wondering noticed my Sully are starting to have bumps and to pyramid, but sofar did the correct steps like

-Closer enclosure
-greenery and grass w mizuri
-located in phil so temps are 85c-90c
-humidty in enclosure is 80-90%
- daily baths in the sun for 20-30min, temp in the sun range around 90-100c
-no UVB since I do daily sunbath
-have cuttlebone in enclosure
-enclosure is around 1meters x .6meters

so im guessing maybe the eat to many? maybe i should lessen the food? they are roughly around 6 months old, 7cm long.

should i let them eat less daily?
also are sully heavier than other torts? i have some IS and Leos that are 1 yr old already, bigger then the sullys but are lighter? are sullys more massly packed torts? they feel like a small rock hehe

Pyramiding is not caused by food or growth rate. It is caused by growth in conditions that are too dry.

How long is the tortoise left outside daily? You said daily "baths in the sun". Does this mean you are soaking the tortoise while the tub sits in full sun?

Your location says CA, but you say you are located in Phil. Philadelphia? Where are the temperatures 85-90?

What type of basking bulb are you using?

Your enclosure is too small. Time for an upgrade. You need a 244x122 cm closed chamber to raise a sulcata.

7cm at 6 months old is exceptionally slow growth. That is not fast growth. How much does the sulcata weigh, in grams, at six months?

 

[labanog]

Hi Tom,

I leave then around 20-30min, in the sun but in a shaded portion of a patio, so sunlight reaches them from the side not from directly on top. in a tub w water. is that okay? i used to bath them in sunlight first then bath them in water indoors after, but read and saw in youtube it better for them to bath in sun to help enduce poops, sun temp is around 95-100c when i check w temp gun

i registered before and click CA, but was supposed tobe Philippines in Asia, not sure if I can still edit my location?

didnt put a basking lamp just a CHE in the enclosure

ahh okay will try work on a bigger enclosure

this is their chart in grams, if the weight becomes lighter should I be alarmed?

 

[labanog]

Post pics of enclosure. So far fast growth has not been associated with pyramiding.
Sulcatas get much bigger than leopards so likely will feel heavier.
You are not housing different species together I hope?
Also, not housing pairs correct?

will try to post photos of enclo and their pics

ahh okay, so sullys are heavier then the others?

yup i housed the different breed differently from what I read, tho the sullys are together for now, but might seperate them when i upgrade another enclosure and put Leo in their seperate homes.

 

[labanog]

If I have learned one thing on this site it's that Pyramiding is Caused by Growth in Dry Conditions. So perhaps some of your instruments are giving you incorrect readings, or your lights are wrong, or too much time is spent outside.

ohh i see, got it thanks, so its growth from growing, not growth from eating too much. appreciate the inputs

 

[Tom]

Hi Tom,

I leave then around 20-30min, in the sun but in a shaded portion of a patio, so sunlight reaches them from the side not from directly on top. in a tub w water. is that okay? i used to bath them in sunlight first then bath them in water indoors after, but read and saw in youtube it better for them to bath in sun to help enduce poops, sun temp is around 95-100c when i check w temp gun

i registered before and click CA, but was supposed tobe Philippines in Asia, not sure if I can still edit my location?

didnt put a basking lamp just a CHE in the enclosure

ahh okay will try work on a bigger enclosure

this is their chart in grams, if the weight becomes lighter should I be alarmed?

When indoors are they in a closed chamber or an open topped enclosure?

When indoors they need a basking lamp. CHEs are to maintain the ambient temp. They still need a warmer basking area in addition to a warm ambient temps. And it also needs to be brightly lit inside.

There are four elements to heating and lighting:

1. Basking bulb. I use 65 watt incandescent floods from the hardware store. Some people will need bigger, or smaller wattage bulbs. Let your thermometer be your guide. I run them on a timer for about 12 hours and adjust the height to get the correct basking temp under them. I also like to use a flat rock of some sort directly under the bulb. You need to check the temp with a thermometer directly under the bulb and get it to around 95-100F (36-37C).
2. Ambient heat maintenance. I use ceramic heating elements or radiant heat panels set on thermostats to maintain ambient above 80 degrees day and night for tropical species. In most cases you'd only need day heat for a temperate species like Testudo or DT, as long as your house stays above 60F (15-16C) at night. Some people in colder climates or with larger enclosures will need multiple CHEs or RHPs to spread out enough heat.
3. Ambient light. I use LEDs for this purpose. Something in the 5000-6500K color range will look the best. Most bulbs at the store are in the 2500K range and they look yellowish. Strip or screw-in LED bulb types are both fine.
4. UV. If you can get your tortoise outside for an hour 2 or 3 times a week, you won't need indoor UV. In colder climates, get one of the newer HO type fluorescent tubes. Which type will depend on mounting height. 5.0 bulbs make almost no UV. I like the 12% HO bulbs from Arcadia. You need a meter to check this: https://www.solarmeter.com/model65.html A good UV bulb only needs to run for 2-3 hours mid day. You need the basking bulb and the ambient lighting to be on at least 12 hours a day.

 

[labanog]

this are pics of the enclosure and photos of Leo and Tell

 

[Tom]

this are pics of the enclosure and photos of Leo and Tell

That is the right type of enclosure, but it looks too small. You also need about triple that amount of substrate, and it needs to be damp.

 

[wellington]

That is the right type of enclosure, but it looks too small. You also need about triple that amount of substrate, and it needs to be damp.

So second this and asap. Way too small specially if you have two in there which tortoise, specially sulcatas should not be kept in pairs. Things need much improving quick.

 

[labanog]

okay gotcha, thanks Tom and Wellington, will work on the points above. appreciate the inputs