Eastern hermann clarification

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Rover15

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hi everyone, so i'm picking up a female eastern Hermann roughly 8" in length and they believe it to be about 5-10 years old but will try and narrow it down for me. it is coming from a reptile store near me, seems healthy feels heavy when I picked her up, she eats fine in front of people, she is able to walk on all four legs. she does have long nails but they are not folding in or turning, and a long beak.

i'm picking her up on Wednesday or Thursday this week.

I wanted to clear a few things up because of all the information I have read I am still confused

1, Substrate: aspen, mulch, soil, coco fiber/coir, rocks, grass, timothy hay, 50% sand 50% soil mix, all have been said to be good.

I just want the best substrate for her I know to help trim her beak and nails naturally i will have rocks, slate rock on top of the substrate for her to climb and eat off of to help "naturally" trim down nails and beck

2. diet: another confusing topic, i have herd that tomatoes are fine once and a while herd never feed tomatoes. and that is only one example from many conflicting care sheets

i'm looking for types of flowers, weeds, veggies or anything else i can grow both in her enclosure and outside(when spring hits) i will also be feeding mazuri tortoise diet every 3 days/2 times a week i also have read the tortoise lasagne and will try that once i get to know her appetite better.

3. temps: this one im not confused but want to make sure i'm on the right track. night time temps 60-65 day time 70-80 and 90 basking spot does this sound right? i will have a good temp graduate in her indoor enclosure but want to ensure i am right with what temps i need

4. enclosure size, i plan on putting a tortoise table together about 5ft by 2ft (might be bigger we will see when i start to build). as for height i have read somewhere, not sure where but the rule of thumb is scl plus half for the walls above substrate (example scl 8"+4"=12" above substrate) is this correct? so if i'm building my substrate depth 6" then it will be fine with 18-20" walls?

sorry for such a long thread there has been many conflicting information so any or all help would be great thank you in advance

here is the only pic i have of her right now (not even close to the ideal setup but it is what they had to work with)

4r8eh4.jpg
 

ascott

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Very pretty tort....and you are correct in stating that current set up is less than desirable :D

I do not house this species, however there are lots here that do. I will share only a few of my preferences with you;

soil; earth like makes the most sense
and slate and flat rocks for beak and nail maint. is a good thing

tomatos; some folks offer them, I personally do not offer any of the torts/turtles here.

temps; if you are going to use the constant heavy humidity method then I would strongly suggest no temps (day nor night) fall below 80 degrees, ever. If you are going to provide a warm humid hide in lieu of the entire wet enclosure :)D), then the temps you went over sound good...however, I would bump the basking spot to closer to 95-98 degrees....

hiding spots; I would also make sure that you provide a variety of hiding spots (real or silk plants) and plant canopies do this really well...

Okay, so my post here will bump your thread back to the front...so hold tight and see what other input you are offered...;)
 

Rover15

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thank you almost 2 and a half hours i was getting worried :p i wish i could change the thread title name and simply add "/help" next to clarifications but oh well hopefully i will get more replies it is mainly for my wife she fell in love with this tortoise.

now it is my understanding that the hermanns don't need high humidity like 30%-50% was fine? i know with young tortoise high humidity is good but i assumed as this one was an adult that 30%-50% was okay :s. and yes i do plan on building a humid hide either with a large bucket on its side with moss in it or using fake plants and making a pocket almost. my wife plans on building a "cave" for her out of slate rock or something.
 

Tom

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I mostly agree with Angela. Some of this is just personal preference. I don't like sand mixtures. I feel it presents and impaction risk. I don't like hay for a substrate in an indoor enclosure because it molds to easily. Tomatoes are not toxic, but they are also not good for them. Eating tomatoes takes up valuable stomach space from what they SHOULD be eating. Same with cucumber, iceberg lettuce, etc... I agree that your basking temp should be a little warmer. Your indoor enclosure needs to be MUCH bigger. An 8" tortoise needs room to move around a bit. 2x5' feet is too small. After you add the furniture there will not be much room left to move around.
 

Edna

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She is a beautiful tortoise! Conflicting information is just part of the deal, so you have to pick through what you're told and choose what works best for you in your situation.
Substrate: My eastern Hermanns are currently on a substrate that includes most of the things on your list. Cypress mulch, organic soil, coir, and clean sand, with various rocks in their basking area and as a food spot. Timothy grass is growing well in their indoor enclosure, and I have stuffed their hide full of hay several times.
Food: There are lots of edible plants growing in my indoor, and I also buy grocery store greens. They get pumpkin in season. When I prepare a tomato for human consumption, I don't feel bad about giving the cut-off ends to the torts. They enjoy it, and it makes up less than 1% of their diet. Hermanns are not grazing tortoises, and generally don't eat grass.
Hide: My tortoises have a large common hide made of two unglazed terra cotta planters, laid on their sides, with a bark slab placed on top of them. They also have a large bark slab that lays directly on the substrate. They force their way under it and seem to appreciate it.
Temps: My indoor is very wet, with live plants growing in the substrate and an active population of earthworms. I let the nighttime temps fall to 60 degrees. My basking temp is about 95, and there are other semi-heated spots around the enclosure. Other than those spots, daytime temps run in the mid-low 60s.
Size: If you can make your enclosure bigger than 5x2, that would be a good thing. 6X3? Adult Hermanns seem to use every inch of the space they're given. My Hermanns seem pretty happy in their indoor enclosure. Both of my young adult females have laid eggs in there.
 

Rover15

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what are safe grocery store foods if any? i'm a couple months away from spring there for weeds are no where to be found.

I would like to find some sort of food I can regularly feed that I can grow indoor so that next winter I don't have to worry about finding weeds or flowers (not sure about hibernating might do it might not)

I will build a larger enclosure any suggestions on size, tom? maybe a second floor? has any one done a two level indoor enclosure for a Hermann?
 

Edna

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Grocery store greens: Spring mix, mustard greens, collard greens, kale, Romaine lettuce, sunflower sprouts, winter squash. My grocery store doesn't have these, but some carry dandelion greens or chicory, or cactus pads. If you feed a large variety, your tortoise will be getting the nutrition she needs.
 

Rover15

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Edna said:
Grocery store greens: Spring mix, mustard greens, collard greens, kale, Romaine lettuce, sunflower sprouts, winter squash. My grocery store doesn't have these, but some carry dandelion greens or chicory, or cactus pads. If you feed a large variety, your tortoise will be getting the nutrition she needs.


Right now I feed my yellow foot mediteerranean mix that has eescarole, leaf lettuce, radicchio, endive I also add mushrooms, and carlard greens, carrot tops every 2 weeks she gets one sliced strawberry, odd time I will add romain or ice berge lettus

In the enclosure I have planted salad mix witch includes chiocty, endive, spinach, basil, and parsely

Is that variety of diet is that fine for the hermann? I will also be planting some of the above in doors and feeding it instead of allowing the sports to be had at.

I have a flower mixture that contains: aster-crego mix, cockscomb-plumosa, cosmos-soensation, gypsophila-baby4 breath, bachelor button-double mix, calendula-pacific beauty, marigold-crackerjack, pinks-double mix, snapdragon-tetra,zinnia-california giant

Does any one reconize any of those flowers are they safe?

I wish I knew a place in canada that sold weed seeds I could feed.
 

Edna

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Your Mediterranean mix will be fine. My Hermanns love chicory, and it grows well in both the outdoor and indoor enclosures. They would love the endive as well, along with a little spinach. Mine won't eat basil or parsley. My Hermanns have never shown any interest in mushrooms.

My outdoor enclosure includes a tangled growth of wild asters. The foliage is tender in the spring and the torts really chow down on it. I have pinks in the indoor enclosure and the torts eat the new leaves. Baby's breath is something that even deer won't eat. The others I haven't tried. In an outdoor enclosure, plants they won't eat become great shade and hiding places.

We have a lot of Canadian members. Maybe you could start a new thread titled something like "Help - Canadian seed sources?".
 

Rover15

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Edna said:
Your Mediterranean mix will be fine. My Hermanns love chicory, and it grows well in both the outdoor and indoor enclosures. They would love the endive as well, along with a little spinach. Mine won't eat basil or parsley. My Hermanns have never shown any interest in mushrooms.

My outdoor enclosure includes a tangled growth of wild asters. The foliage is tender in the spring and the torts really chow down on it. I have pinks in the indoor enclosure and the torts eat the new leaves. Baby's breath is something that even deer won't eat. The others I haven't tried. In an outdoor enclosure, plants they won't eat become great shade and hiding places.

We have a lot of Canadian members. Maybe you could start a new thread titled something like "Help - Canadian seed sources?".

I might start a thread like that soon I'll look around more first. Come spring I'll be grabbing weeds and other flowers that I can feed so incress the verity but I'll also cut down on the salad mix and grocery store stuff.
 

Beeliz

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I have half aspen,and the rest grass hay,which mine loves to eat and walk in...I also know that the temps you wrote are perfect. nighttime can drop to 60-65. |Daytime your info was right on..and humidity isn't a huge issue,especially with a 5 year old herman,,your house levels will suit her just fine,,you can bath her a few times a week in luke warm water for 20 mins :)
all the food people gave here is great,,I prefer not to allow tomotoes,,doesn't seem natural where they're from..just my input ..beautiful tort!!
Oh! I just planted some cat grass indoors,which they love!! easy to grow :)
 

Tortoise

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GBtortoises said:
Yes it's normal.

Humidity is a very much a big deal with Hermann's species!

There are three components to proper hydration which are crucial to Hermann's species as well as many others. This is especially true of just about every baby tortoise of any species.

1.) Body hydration-the tortoise has to have the ability to drink when it needs to. It should have clean drinking water that is easily accessible and available at all times. In addition to that soaking can be done as an added insurance for the tortoise to get an opportunity to drink.
2.) Soil moisture-the substrate that your tortoise is on should feel moist without being wet. Tortoises bury themselves in the substrate primarily to keep from drying out and to hide. This action can sometimes be a sign that the ambient air is too dry or too hot. In most situations the substrate for any of the Hermann's subspecies should be sprayed twice daily, more often if necessary.
3) Ambient air-the ambient air humidity can often determine the activity of a tortoise. If it is too dry they will often seek cooler more moist conditions in order to prevent dehydration. This is especially true of young tortoises. Hermann's tortoises along with some other Testudo species should have a minimum ambient air humidity level of 50% to as high as 75% with around 60-65% being ideal for normal activity.

Remember the need for some humidity as Garry at GB tortoises wrote about here recently.
Thanks
Louise
 

Terry Allan Hall

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Might plant some St. Augustine in their outdoor enclosure...my 4 love it! Not sure how well it'd grow up there, but will probably do OK through the summer. If you go out and plant weed seeds now, by the time it's warm enough to live outside, there'll be a nice little edible jungle for them.

Also, grow "feed plants" indoors, so that next winter, you can augment their diet with edible weeds and cactus pad (all easy to grow under lights!)...some advocate Brumating tortoises during the winter, but there's dangers in this, so I've never done so.

Lastly, gather edible weeds and dry them for next winter...mix dried weeds with soaked tortoise chow (I use Marion Tortoise Sticks, myself) and they'll chow down on it enthusiastically, and I offer a cactus pad 2X a week (lots of calcium!).
 
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