Eating

[Sarah dearden]

Hi I need help ? Had our horsfield for 3 wks she is 2 years old I'm sorry to say pet shop bought ?? She's not eaten a thing since getting her , I've tried everything to encourage her . Given her all the weeds that is advised , even given her back the dreadful stuff she was eating in the pet shop but nothing ? Should I take her to the vets or wait it out a little longer ?

 

[wellington]

If she's from the pet store, she is probably much older then two and is wild caught.
What are your temps, lighting being used, soaking schedule and substrate? What size enclosure and how big?
Is she walking around drinking or just hiding in a corner or under a hide?

 

[Yvonne G]

There's nothing wrong with buying a 2 year old Russian tortoise from a pet store. At that age it's probably a captive bred animal. You are probably in the UK. Here in the States our pet stores don't have good access to captive bred animals and most pet stores sell wild caught.

Tortoises take several weeks to calm down and realize their new home is a safe place. They don't like change and being young, he's scared of his new environment (he's prey after all).

There's nothing a vet can do to reassure your animal he's safe. Just give him time and work slowly and calmly around him. I would get him up every morning and set him in a bowl of warm water (that he can't climb out of). Then while he's soaking, prepare his food and place it on the feeding dish. Until he gets used to his new home, place the feeding dish right in front of his hiding place. After about 15 minutes, put the baby by the food then quickly step out of his sight.

 

[Sarah dearden]

If she's from the pet store, she is probably much older then two and is wild caught.
What are your temps, lighting being used, soaking schedule and substrate? What size enclosure and how big?
Is she walking around drinking or just hiding in a corner or under a hide?

Thanks for getting back to me ? She is on top soil and has a uv light and heat lamp that is on for 12 hours a day ? I give her a bath every morning in warm water , she tends to poo and wee in there too . She's quiet sleepy parts of the day which I've read is common for this time of year ,I'm guessing she's never hibernated yet , which I feel I'm not ready this year and I'm not convinced she's healthy enough ? It's just she's not eaten at all , I've caught her drinking from the bath water and her water in her cage , she's not in a Viv? She in a indoor massive rabbit cage

 

[Gillian M]

A very warm welcome to the forum @Sarah dearden !

Torts take time to adapt to change, so don't worry/panic.

Please give your tort a daily soak in warm water: soaks do tend to make torts eat.

Read the "Beginners Mistakes" Thread, and please post pics of your tort and his enclosure.

 

[Gillian M]

Thanks for getting back to me ? She is on top soil and has a uv light and heat lamp that is on for 12 hours a day ? I give her a bath every morning in warm water , she tends to poo and wee in there too . She's quiet sleepy parts of the day which I've read is common for this time of year ,I'm guessing she's never hibernated yet , which I feel I'm not ready this year and I'm not convinced she's healthy enough ? It's just she's not eaten at all , I've caught her drinking from the bath water and her water in her cage , she's not in a Viv? She in a indoor massive rabbit cage

That's a good sign if she's drinking water, AND she's pooping and peeing.

Is the enclosure/cage warm enough?

 

[JoesMum]

Hi I need help ? Had our horsfield for 3 wks she is 2 years old I'm sorry to say pet shop bought ?? She's not eaten a thing since getting her , I've tried everything to encourage her . Given her all the weeds that is advised , even given her back the dreadful stuff she was eating in the pet shop but nothing ? Should I take her to the vets or wait it out a little longer ?

Hi Sarah

Are you certain of the exact temperatures in your enclosure? What are they?

Directly under the basking lamp, warm side, cool side and overnight minimum?

Have you been soaking your tort every day for at least 30 minutes? - hydration is vital when appetite is lost. Use a high sided bowl that your tort can't see over or through. The water should be warm, not hot; think baby bath. If you're in the UK get some Reptoboost to add to the soaking water; it's a pro-biotic, electrolyte and vitamin mix that was recommended to me by my herp vet.

Have we seen pictures of the enclosure and lighting so we can spot anything that might not help?

New torts frequently refuse to eat as they are frightened following a change of home. Combine that with the lower light levels at this time of year, which further suppress activity and appetite, and it can make life quite difficult

Get into a routine so your tort learns to trust you. I suggest
- lights on for 12-14 hours using a timer
- First thing, before your tort warms up properly, soak for at least 30 minutes
- During the soak, tidy the enclosure and place food
- Replace the tort and walk away
- Don't watch. Leave your tort to be brave and start exploring without feeling intimidated.

 

[wellington]

A rabbit cage is not the best, too opened and too small. What are the temps at tort level? She has to be able to warm up over 85 to digest food. Day temps should be around 80, and then the basking spot. I would try wrapping the cage with something solid to give her more privacy and cover part of the top too. It does take some longer to adjust. Drinking is good. Do not hibernate this year for sure. Then try working on a bigger enclosure. 4x8 feet minimum.

 

[Sarah dearden]

That's a good sign if she's drinking water, AND she's pooping and peeing.

Is the enclosure/cage warm enough?

Yes I'm sure it's warm enough plus she's next to the radiator which probably goes of about 9ish at night and comes on again at 6am plus I've been leaving the heat lamp on most nights till about 10pm even when she's buried herself think I just need to persov

A rabbit cage is not the best, too opened and too small. What are the temps at tort level? She has to be able to warm up over 85 to digest food. Day temps should be around 80, and then the basking spot. I would try wrapping the cage with something solid to give her more privacy and cover part of the top too. It does take some longer to adjust. Drinking is good. Do not hibernate this year for sure. Then try working on a bigger enclosure. 4x8 feet minimum.

the cage is massive it's 4x10 plus she will be living outside next year so it's only temporary till we can sort out an area in the garden for her and it's very deep ? I will check the temp tonight but I do keep it on for over 12 hours most days

 

[Sarah dearden]

Hi Sarah

Are you certain of the exact temperatures in your enclosure? What are they?

Directly under the basking lamp, warm side, cool side and overnight minimum?

Have you been soaking your tort every day for at least 30 minutes? - hydration is vital when appetite is lost. Use a high sided bowl that your tort can't see over or through. The water should be warm, not hot; think baby bath. If you're in the UK get some Reptoboost to add to the soaking water; it's a pro-biotic, electrolyte and vitamin mix that was recommended to me by my herp vet.

Have we seen pictures of the enclosure and lighting so we can spot anything that might not help?

New torts frequently refuse to eat as they are frightened following a change of home. Combine that with the lower light levels at this time of year, which further suppress activity and appetite, and it can make life quite difficult

Get into a routine so your tort learns to trust you. I suggest
- lights on for 12-14 hours using a timer
- First thing, before your tort warms up properly, soak for at least 30 minutes
- During the soak, tidy the enclosure and place food
- Replace the tort and walk away
- Don't watch. Leave your tort to be brave and start exploring without feeling intimidated.

 

[JoesMum]

Thanks for the photo @Sarah dearden. Now we have something to work with

Basking:
Your tort needs to be able to bask at 35C/95-100F directly under the lamp - at tortoise level on the substrate. Temperature underneath is regulated by raising or lowering the lamp.

You have a red heat lamp positioned above the shelter.
- Your tort can only bask by climbing on the shelter
- Red heat lamps are not recommended for torts. They have excellent colour vision and the red heat lamps colour the decor and substrate red. Torts are not very clever and love red foods (even if they're not good for them) can start eating the substrate, etc in error (I've watched mine try to eat red circles printed on a newspaper!)
- This bulb needs to be repositioned and replaced with a plain reflector basking bulb

[bUVB:[/b]
You have a compact coil type bulb. These frequently cause eye problems in tortoises and we don't recommend them. Your tort may be hiding away because its eyes hurt.

This bulb needs to be replaced with a fluorescent tube type UVB.

The alternative is to replace both bulbs with a single Mercury Vapour Bulb (MVB) that provides both basking heat and UVB.

I will post a lighting summary next to explain the heat/light situation with torts.

 

[JoesMum]

Here's a lighting summary:

Your tort needs:

1. A basking lamp
This must hang vertically, not at an angle. Basking is essential to raise your tortoise's core temperature so it can digest food.

2. UVB light
Read the instructions for the source to see how close to the substrate it must be. UVB is essential so your tort can process dietary calcium and have healthy bones and shell.

Both 1 and 2 are available from the sun for those able to live outside.

UVB does not pass through glass or perspex(plexiglass) - light must be direct to be effective not through a window. Mesh screening can also interfere with UVB.

3. A minimum overnight temperature (65F/18C) and complete darkness at night to sleep.


Notes

(a) A Mercury Vapor Bulb (MVB) provides combined UVB and Basking. Alternatively you can use 2 bulbs: a tube UVB and a reflector bulb for basking (a household reflector - not low energy or halogen - from a hardware store will do the job; it's the wattage that counts)

(b) Ignore any references to UVA you may read - it's misleading marketing speak.

(c) Compact coil UVB harms tortoise eyes and must not be used.

(d) Basking and UVB should be on a timer so the light(s) are on for 12 hours a day. Temperature under the basking is regulated by its height above the substrate.

(e) Overnight, depending on your home, you may need additional heat. You get this from a CHE (Ceramic Heat Emitter) which must be on a thermostat.

(f) Torts have outstanding colour vision and love red and purple food. Coloured heat lamps colour tank decor and torts don't always apply intelligence to what they eat, resulting them in eating tank decor. Coloured bulbs should not be used.


Measurements

There are 4 important temperatures that you must know for an indoor enclosure.
- Directly under the basking lamp
- Warm side
- Cool side
- Overnight Minimum

You will need digital thermometers for accuracy.

A temperature gun thermometer (inexpensive from Amazon) measures temperature accurately in specific places like directly under the basking lamp.

A min/max thermometer so you know the min/max temperatures in your home by day and night.

You should also get a good digital probe hygrometer to measure humidity.

Thermometers and hygrometer that stick to the side of the enclosure tend to be less accurate.

 

[Sarah dearden]

Ok gr

Thanks for the photo @Sarah dearden. Now we have something to work with

Basking:
Your tort needs to be able to bask at 35C/95-100F directly under the lamp - at tortoise level on the substrate. Temperature underneath is regulated by raising or lowering the lamp.

You have a red heat lamp positioned above the shelter.
- Your tort can only bask by climbing on the shelter
- Red heat lamps are not recommended for torts. They have excellent colour vision and the red heat lamps colour the decor and substrate red. Torts are not very clever and love red foods (even if they're not good for them) can start eating the substrate, etc in error (I've watched mine try to eat red circles printed on a newspaper!)
- This bulb needs to be repositioned and replaced with a plain reflector basking bulb

[bUVB:[/b]
You have a compact coil type bulb. These frequently cause eye problems in tortoises and we don't recommend them. Your tort may be hiding away because its eyes hurt.

This bulb needs to be replaced with a fluorescent tube type UVB.

The alternative is to replace both bulbs with a single Mercury Vapour Bulb (MVB) that provides both basking heat and UVB.

I will post a lighting summary next to explain the heat/light situation with torts.

eat ok great I will replace both bulbs this wk ? I take it I can get these of the net ? Should her bed be on the warm side or cold side

 

[JoesMum]

As the lamps will be off overnight, and this temperatures should be uniform, it shouldn't really matter. I'd have it cool side by day.

Lamps, fittings and lamp hangers are easily available online on the UK from Amazon and pet supply places (I've used Northampton Reptile Supply)

Timers for the lights can be bought from DIY stores like B&Q as well as Amazon.

I'd turn your UVB off and leave it off until replaced. It won't do any harm for a few days.

 

[Sarah dearden]

As the lamps will be off overnight, and this temperatures should be uniform, it shouldn't really matter. I'd have it cool side by day.

I've now moved everything around for now , she'll end up going mad haha I will sort lights and heating out this wk thanks very much x

 

[wellington]

Place the light in the middle. I suggest getting the mercury vapor bulb and a fixture with a large dome and ceramic socket. It will give you all that's needed. SHe doesn't need heat at night unless your house where she is drops below 60. Then get an infrared heat temp gun, it's. Point and shot to read temps. Best thing for reading temps under a basking light. Then be sure the basking light reaches the basking temps.
For now replace the coil bulb with a regular incandescent light bulb.
It's important to get correct temps and not just guess at them. Heat rises, so without proper readings of them you have no idea how much heat is escaping that you think is warming her up.

 

[Gillian M]

Thanks for the photo @Sarah dearden. Now we have something to work with

Basking:
Your tort needs to be able to bask at 35C/95-100F directly under the lamp - at tortoise level on the substrate. Temperature underneath is regulated by raising or lowering the lamp.

You have a red heat lamp positioned above the shelter.
- Your tort can only bask by climbing on the shelter
- Red heat lamps are not recommended for torts. They have excellent colour vision and the red heat lamps colour the decor and substrate red. Torts are not very clever and love red foods (even if they're not good for them) can start eating the substrate, etc in error (I've watched mine try to eat red circles printed on a newspaper!)
- This bulb needs to be repositioned and replaced with a plain reflector basking bulb

[bUVB:[/b]
You have a compact coil type bulb. These frequently cause eye problems in tortoises and we don't recommend them. Your tort may be hiding away because its eyes hurt.

This bulb needs to be replaced with a fluorescent tube type UVB.

The alternative is to replace both bulbs with a single Mercury Vapour Bulb (MVB) that provides both basking heat and UVB.

I will post a lighting summary next to explain the heat/light situation with torts.

Hi Linda, ok; I do realize that torts are anything but "EINSTEINs" but trying to eat red circles on a newspaper?! Goodness! Wouldn't a tort smell the newspaper? Please do not take this personal, ok? Am just curious.

 

[JoesMum]

Hi Linda, ok; I do realize that torts are anything but "EINSTEINs" but trying to eat red circles on a newspaper?! Goodness! Wouldn't a tort smell the newspaper? Please do not take this personal, ok? Am just curious.

Clearly not. It was late June, he was fixated on windfall cherries in the garden which I was doing my best to clear before he got to them and I can only think he was being optimistic! And thick!

 

[Sarah dearden]

Place the light in the middle. I suggest getting the mercury vapor bulb and a fixture with a large dome and ceramic socket. It will give you all that's needed. SHe doesn't need heat at night unless your house where she is drops below 60. Then get an infrared heat temp gun, it's. Point and shot to read temps. Best thing for reading temps under a basking light. Then be sure the basking light reaches the basking temps.
For now replace the coil bulb with a regular incandescent light bulb.
It's important to get correct temps and not just guess at them. Heat rises, so without proper readings of them you have no idea how much heat is escaping that you think is warming her up.

I'm on eBay now what wattage should I get ? 100 or lower ?

 

[wellington]

Yes, 100