Experienced general advice welcome

[Kidfunk83]

Hi people. Before i get flamed for not doing my homework before getting 2 tortoises i would urge you to pop and read my introduction post. This is just a general post to discuss if there is any 100% no no's im doing after rescuing these baby Horsefields.

I will start by stating Mikey & Bowser (we now belive they are both female but the names just stuck) are no longer housed together. Weve already spotted the emotional stress one is starting to show ie not eating as much as it should be, lack of weight gain(both weighed weekly and recorded), lethargy and alertness when the other one is active, etc. No physical attacking or ramming (we also watch them at work through a camera ive installed) but i have now built a not quite so lavish table for little Mikey.
The 6x4 enclosure was made by myself under the stairs, temps seem pretty bang on (sorry, all in degrees) 32-34 hotspot in the centre tailing off to about 29 inside the log and running to about 23 at the furthest end (room temp). Shaded log and plant pots supplied to get out of ditect sun. All surface temps are measure with an IR laser gun that i use for my snakes. Air temp/humidity are measured with a digital probe placed 3 inches above the substrate which reads about 25-28 Under the hotspot were using the tortoise sand substrate (not fine sand or play sand) and that then runs off to coco coir down the far end which is usually where they dig at night. The problem may be my lighting/heat source as i obvioustly rushed out the next day in a panic to get suitable equiptment and was sold, which i read on here earlier was not a good choice a mercury vapour bulb. I have since moved a spare one to the new smaller table ive built for short term housing for Mikey until we can get him back to feeling secure and feeding and gaining weight before i will be force to rehome him due to lack of space for a 2nd big enclosure. Its a shame as weve become very attached to both but theres always been a soft spot for the smaller under dog but im of the belief we do right by the animals needs and not by our selfish wants and desires.
This was just a quick post to see if anyone can give and tips, suggestions or advise on things that i need to change yesterday. Very kind regards, Tom.

 

[Yvonne G]

You're right, they both look female now, but it might be because they're still too young yet to know for sure.

I really like the way you utilized the space under the stairs. And because the tortoises are still young, I think it would be ok to put a dividing wall across the center to make one enclosure into two. Maybe divide it lengthwise for a longer walking space. As they mature, of course, they each will need a much bigger space. Maybe divide the space with impenetrable plants. This would serve a dual purpose - provide shade and relief from the light, plus make two enclosures out of one.

 

[Littleredfootbigredheart]

I can’t help with advising for caring for these two as I’ve got no experience with this species, but I just wanted to say you are awesome for rescuing these guys!
Nothing irks me more than a grown adult not taking responsibility for their animals because their kids lost interest, you can already see how much effort you’ve put into caring for them, they’ll be so many wonderful folks on here ready to help you with the best information moving forward😊

Welcome to the forum! It’s a great community here❤️

 

[wellington]

Two things I see. The water dish is a drowning hazard and should be switch to a clay saucer they can fit into
Also those white pebbles are a problem. They like to eat white and bright colored things. This could cause impaction. Switch substrate to orchid or fir bark or coconut coir or combo.

 

[Kidfunk83]

You're right, they both look female now, but it might be because they're still too young yet to know for sure.

I really like the way you utilized the space under the stairs. And because the tortoises are still young, I think it would be ok to put a dividing wall across the center to make one enclosure into two. Maybe divide it lengthwise for a longer walking space. As they mature, of course, they each will need a much bigger space. Maybe divide the space with impenetrable plants. This would serve a dual purpose - provide shade and relief from the light, plus make two enclosures out of one.

It would defenately have to be length ways, utilising the 1 heat lamp. I would feel bad tho as Bowser seems to love the space and defenately utilises it all. I cant have both lamps on as the individual basking are for each is 32-34 but with both of them on it sky rockets to 40. Initally they were to create a longer basking area to stop any fighting for the optimal basking spot but i soon had to knock that one on the head once i measured my temps. So now one just hangs there doing nothing but looking pretty 😂. I also feel its just extending the time of the inevitable too. Regardless of the now, at some point another big enclosure will be needed. I love these guys enough to give one up to someone that can offer the correct living conditions. Maybe i will just wait for my daughter to go to uni and make her bedroom in to a tort and reptile room. She can sleep on the sofa when she comes back 😂

 

[wellington]

I can’t help with advising for caring for these two as I’ve got no experience with this species, but I just wanted to say you are awesome for rescuing these guys!
Nothing irks me more than a grown adult not taking responsibility for their animals because their kids lost interest, you can already see how much effort you’ve put into caring for them, they’ll be so many wonderful folks on here ready to help you with the best information moving forward😊

Welcome to the forum! It’s a great community here❤️

What irks me as much, are people saying they rescued a tortoise and then don't give it a proper home and still doing just as bad as the home it came from.
Not talking about this OP, but have seen many on here.

 

[Kidfunk83]

Two things I see. The water dish is a drowning hazard and should be switch to a clay saucer they can fit into
Also those white pebbles are a problem. They like to eat white and bright colored things. This could cause impaction. Switch substrate to orchid or fir bark or coconut coir or combo.

That can be done, no issue at all although the sish is no more than 1cm deep. Very shallow. Full to the top it doesnt even cover the plastron. The substrate i was sold as tortoise substrate, also labelled as such. This was one of my panic buys when i first took them in. I can see your point tho and appreciate your feedback and i will change to coco throughout the enclosure as opposed to just the 1 end.

 

[Littleredfootbigredheart]

What irks me as much, are people saying they rescued a tortoise and then don't give it a proper home and still doing just as bad as the home it came from.
Not talking about this OP, but have seen many on here.

Oh I can imagine😣it must be so hard when your advising someone on something and they just argue with you out of their own stubbornness!

This OP is completely on the right track and willing to listen which is wonderful❤️

 

[Alex and the Redfoot]

You've done a great job with their enclosure!

Maybe a closet under the enclosure can be re-purposed into vivarium? And a crazy option is to get a bunk bed and make an enclosure under it - maybe your daughter will agree to share space with a cute shelled roommate.

There is one concern about current set up: humidity. Optimal is between 50-70% across the enclosure to prevent pyramiding. With open top its hard to achieve.

 

[Kidfunk83]

What irks me as much, are people saying they rescued a tortoise and then don't give it a proper home and still doing just as bad as the home it came from.
Not talking about this OP, but have seen many on here.

I also feel the same. Ive been keeping, rehoming and looking after reptiles for over 20 years and ive seen alot of it. Its the people that are housing animals incorrectly that are not willing to change when given good solid advice that gets me the most. Especially when it basic husbandry or more importantly heating and lighting, of which im sure we can both agree that without it being correct these cold blooded creatures just cant survive.

 

[Kidfunk83]

That can be done, no issue at all although the sish is no more than 1cm deep. Very shallow. Full to the top it doesnt even cover the plastron. The substrate i was sold as tortoise substrate, also labelled as such. This was one of my panic buys when i first took them in. I can see your point tho and appreciate your feedback and i will change to coco throughout the enclosure as opposed to just the 1 end.

You've done a great job with their enclosure!

Maybe a closet under the enclosure can be re-purposed into vivarium? And a crazy option is to get a bunk bed and make an enclosure under it - maybe your daughter will agree to share space with a cute shelled roommate.

There is one concern about current set up: humidity. Optimal is between 50-70% across the enclosure to prevent pyramiding. With open top its hard to achieve.

All my fishing gear in under there but dont give me any more ideas 😂 my wife is happy she has her utility cupboard back 😂
I took the humidifier out of the hall way as i was led to believe (thanks google) thet between 40-50 was optimal. I can boost the humidity no issue. I will be changing out the other half of my substrate from the ill advised tortoise sand to coco coir on the advice of another poster in the thread, which will naturally hold more humidity. The end that has coco in it now has a humidity of 54 and that was put in there 3 weeks ago so i can wet it and mix it through should take that to your reccomended levels with a wet down and mix up every couple of weeks, checks dependent. It will also help now that im only using one of those lamps and not both at the same time.
My daughter is nearly 18 and would say she is way too cool for a bunk bed. Thats ok tho, when she goes to uni her bedroom will be my new reptile room. She can have the sofa when shes back 😂

 

[Kidfunk83]

I also feel the same. Ive been keeping, rehoming and looking after reptiles for over 20 years and ive seen alot of it. Its the people that are housing animals incorrectly that are not willing to change when given good solid advice that gets me the most. Especially when it basic husbandry or more importantly heating and lighting, of which im sure we can both agree that without it being correct these cold blooded creatures just cant survive.

@wellington Going back to the dish, i wasnt saying its 10mm deep so im not changing it i just didnt know if it looked deeper from the image. Maybe it the size of the dish thats the issue? I didnt mean to sound like i was disregarding your knowledge.

 

[Littleredfootbigredheart]

@wellington Going back to the dish, i wasnt saying its 10mm deep so im not changing it i just didnt know if it looked deeper from the image. Maybe it the size of the dish thats the issue? I didnt mean to sound like i was disregarding your knowledge.

I think sometimes the texture of the dish can be a concern in the event one of them were to accidentally flip themselves, with a terracotta dish there’s enough grip for a tortoise to hopefully flip themselves back on their own, some people add pebbles in their water dish to help with this too.
We personally use both a terracotta and a corner water dish filled with stones, however our red foot is like 5x the size of your littles ones so it’s slightly less of a hazard, but I think with young torts terracotta dishes are considered safest, hope that helps

*edit* just to add it should still be shallow for these little guys😊

 

[Tom]

All my fishing gear in under there but dont give me any more ideas 😂 my wife is happy she has her utility cupboard back 😂
I took the humidifier out of the hall way as i was led to believe (thanks google) thet between 40-50 was optimal. I can boost the humidity no issue. I will be changing out the other half of my substrate from the ill advised tortoise sand to coco coir on the advice of another poster in the thread, which will naturally hold more humidity. The end that has coco in it now has a humidity of 54 and that was put in there 3 weeks ago so i can wet it and mix it through should take that to your reccomended levels with a wet down and mix up every couple of weeks, checks dependent. It will also help now that im only using one of those lamps and not both at the same time.
My daughter is nearly 18 and would say she is way too cool for a bunk bed. Thats ok tho, when she goes to uni her bedroom will be my new reptile room. She can have the sofa when shes back 😂

Higher humidity is better for growing tortoises. You could also offer humid hide to each one.

Whoever thought encouraging a tortoise to eat sandy substrate by putting little bits of limestone in it was a good idea should be smacked upside the head. That is absolutely idiotic. And then every pet shop in the land sells it because it has a tortoise on the label. Does no one anywhere in that whole process have a brain? Sand kills tortoises. Making them eat sand on purpose is lunacy. I'm glad you are willing to change that out. Along with the sand and soil being bad, tortoises need a thick damp substrate to dig into for humidity. Make your coco coir 3-4 incase thick and hand pack it firmly.

About your light bulbs. If running them both is 40 degrees, then raise them a little higher, or get two new bulbs that are lower wattage, or run them each through a rheostat and dial down the power. You should be using regular incandescent flood bulbs, not MVBs or halogens. MVBs can burn their eyes, or produce no UV at all, and they tend to make hot spots. The type of light they generate also makes pyramiding worse. To check the temp under your basking lamps, lay a digital thermometer on its back and let it bake directly under the lamp for an hour or more. Adjust the height or wattage as needed to get a basking area, at tortoise shell height, around 36-37C.

Looks like you still need ambient lighting and a good HO UV tube. Not having these things might be a contributing factor for why the one has become less active.

Have you seen this one already:

Info For New People. Please Read This First.

Hello and welcome to tortoiseforum.org! We are all glad you are here! There is no other forum like this anywhere. We have tens of thousands of members from all over the world ranging from kids with their first tortoise to people who have been breeding and keeping high end tortoises since the...

tortoiseforum.org

 

[Kidfunk83]

Higher humidity is better for growing tortoises. You could also offer humid hide to each one.

Whoever thought encouraging a tortoise to eat sandy substrate by putting little bits of limestone in it was a good idea should be smacked upside the head. That is absolutely idiotic. And then every pet shop in the land sells it because it has a tortoise on the label. Does no one anywhere in that whole process have a brain? Sand kills tortoises. Making them eat sand on purpose is lunacy. I'm glad you are willing to change that out. Along with the sand and soil being bad, tortoises need a thick damp substrate to dig into for humidity. Make your coco coir 3-4 incase thick and hand pack it firmly.

About your light bulbs. If running them both is 40 degrees, then raise them a little higher, or get two new bulbs that are lower wattage, or run them each through a rheostat and dial down the power. You should be using regular incandescent flood bulbs, not MVBs or halogens. MVBs can burn their eyes, or produce no UV at all, and they tend to make hot spots. The type of light they generate also makes pyramiding worse. To check the temp under your basking lamps, lay a digital thermometer on its back and let it bake directly under the lamp for an hour or more. Adjust the height or wattage as needed to get a basking area, at tortoise shell height, around 36-37C.

Looks like you still need ambient lighting and a good HO UV tube. Not having these things might be a contributing factor for why the one has become less active.

Have you seen this one already:

Info For New People. Please Read This First.

Hello and welcome to tortoiseforum.org! We are all glad you are here! There is no other forum like this anywhere. We have tens of thousands of members from all over the world ranging from kids with their first tortoise to people who have been breeding and keeping high end tortoises since the...

tortoiseforum.org

 

[Kidfunk83]

Can you get the flood bulbs in a standard E27 fitting? If so do you have a link to something similar in the UK? Bulbs always confuse me. I cant raise one on my bulbs any higher than it is right now which is why i chose not to use it at all. Once again it looks like i was sold the wrong stuff. They are defenately giving off UV as ive tested them as i do with my snakes but if they need changing and a seperate UV strip fillting then it shall be done.

 

[Tom]

Can you get the flood bulbs in a standard E27 fitting? If so do you have a link to something similar in the UK? Bulbs always confuse me. I cant raise one on my bulbs any higher than it is right now which is why i chose not to use it at all. Once again it looks like i was sold the wrong stuff. They are defenately giving off UV as ive tested them as i do with my snakes but if they need changing and a seperate UV strip fillting then it shall be done.

Arcadia makes regular incandescent flood bulbs for sale on line or in pet shops over there in the UK.



One of the problems with MVBs is too much UVB, or no UVB at all. Since you have a meter, that part won't be an issue, but the other problems are still there. Pyramiding, finicky bulbs that over heat and turn off, the expense, hot spots, and they cause pyramiding. I'm curious to see how long your MVB keeps putting out UV if you keep it. We have a member here who was a vet and he tested a bunch of them and found that they stopped producing any UV at all after about 3 months. He found others that didn't produce any UV at all.

 

[Kidfunk83]

Arcadia makes regular incandescent flood bulbs for sale on line or in pet shops over there in the UK.

View attachment 368791

One of the problems with MVBs is too much UVB, or no UVB at all. Since you have a meter, that part won't be an issue, but the other problems are still there. Pyramiding, finicky bulbs that over heat and turn off, the expense, hot spots, and they cause pyramiding. I'm curious to see how long your MVB keeps putting out UV if you keep it. We have a member here who was a vet and he tested a bunch of them and found that they stopped producing any UV at all after about 3 months. He found others that didn't produce any UV at all