Feeding tube

[Emmajo]

Hi, I'm a fairly new tortoise owner so I just wanted some advice on what's best for my tortoise. He's about a year and a half old (eastern Hermann's), and has reduced his appetite significantly the past couple of weeks to the point where he has stopped eating. I went to the vet when he reduced it and they asked for a faecal sample and apparently this appeared to be the problem of his lack of appetite - inability to pass faeces.

I first wanted to ask some advice on what could be the causes of this. I keep a note on a table of all the temperatures and humidities in the day and night (basking spot and cool spot) and the temperatures are alright however I'm really struggling to keep the humidity up in the day time; also could potentially be his diet, I've been trying to do the best I can with store bought leafy greens however with it being the winter, around my area there has been a lack of suitable weeds for his diet. I don't know whether this was the right thing to do but I tried to give him the "natural laxatives" because I read that things like cucumbers can help. I also bathe him every day.

I went to the vets again recently and they said that he had been losing weight (a couple of grams) and recommended at feeding tube be placed asap to help flush the faeces out of his body and put the nutrients back in. Obviously that's absolutely terrifying to me as I've not even owned a tortoise for a year and I feel like I've failed him!

I just wanted to ask on advice on what I can do to stop this happening again, potential causes, and whether or not a feeding tube is the right direction to go. (Sorry for it being so long)

 

[Yvonne G]

There are two important things to keep a tortoise's digestive tract working properly: Exercise! They must have lots of room to do a lot of "marching." And hydration! If you're not soaking him every day he gets dehydrated and constipation happens.

I would NOT go to the extreme of a feeding tube, when it could be so much easier to make sure the tortoise is living in optimal conditions. Optimal living conditions = happy, healthy tortoise.

Please re-read our care sheet and make the necessary corrections to your tortoise's care and living conditions.

 

[Emmajo]

There are two important things to keep a tortoise's digestive tract working properly: Exercise! They must have lots of room to do a lot of "marching." And hydration! If you're not soaking him every day he gets dehydrated and constipation happens.

I would NOT go to the extreme of a feeding tube, when it could be so much easier to make sure the tortoise is living in optimal conditions. Optimal living conditions = happy, healthy tortoise.

Please re-read our care sheet and make the necessary corrections to your tortoise's care and living conditions.

Hi, thank you so much for replying. This is the thing, I've been letting him roam in a separate area every day and he has warm baths everyday. I was worried that the vet was wrong for the feeding tube, especially because all my research on the topic mentioned nothing about it, because it seems extreme. Do you think I should cancel the operation?

 

[Maro2Bear]

Feeding tube seems like way over the top “treatment” for an issue that can be resolved far less intrusively. I would increase temps, increase duration (and warmth) of the daily soaks & provide plenty of leafy greens.

Please upload some pix of your tort‘s enclosure.

What kind of lights are you using & how long are they on? How about your temps, how & where are you measuring.?

Id cancel the feeding tube procedure until you have no other options.

 

[Emmajo]

Feeding tube seems like way over the top “treatment” for an issue that can be resolved far less intrusively. I would increase temps, increase duration (and warmth) of the daily soaks & provide plenty of leafy greens.

Please upload some pix of your tort‘s enclosure.

What kind of lights are you using & how long are they on? How about your temps, how & where are you measuring.?

Id cancel the feeding tube procedure until you have no other options.

Okay think I'm going to cancel the procedure then. So I'm out at the moment but I've attached one of the photos of the table I got when I first made it. He's got a different bath now with a slope and obviously this was a starting point for him, there's extra bits and bobs in there for him. Don't know if this is relevant but his substrate is a mix of coconut coir and orchid bark

The light I'll admit is wrong due to it being the combined one of heat and uv. I've got a uvb strip and heat lamp separate bulb now, I just need to work out how to fit it onto the table. The light is left on from 9am till 8pm. Temps in the basking spot (I use the laser thingy to measure these) range from 32-35°C and the cool side ranges from 22-24°C. Night time is usually about 19-22°C. Humidity has been a struggle, I'm not too sure how to keep it up in the day time (even with regular sprays) which normally ranges from 45-60%.

Baths are normally about 15-20 minutes long, do you think I should increase this?

 

[Maro2Bear]

Take a thorough read here.

Sticky: HERMANN'S TORTOISE CARE SHEET *UPDATED

Josh and I corresponded last week about making an updated version of the Hermann's tortoise care sheet since the old one we have posted here is a bit outdated and a little too brief in my opinion. So, here is the new one equipped with photos. Look out for the April 2015 issue of Reptiles...

www.tortoiseforum.org

 

[Yvonne G]

Hi, thank you so much for replying. This is the thing, I've been letting him roam in a separate area every day and he has warm baths everyday. I was worried that the vet was wrong for the feeding tube, especially because all my research on the topic mentioned nothing about it, because it seems extreme. Do you think I should cancel the operation?

Yes, cancel! If one is constipated, why would you want to stuff more food in there? Get rid of the impaction first, then worry about feeding.

We don't normally encourage feeding fruit, but desperate times call for desperate measures. Offer him some things like watermelon, cucumber, aloe , canteloup, cactus, any real wet food that might peek his interest.

I discovered long ago about LO-O-ONG soaks. I once put a rescue russian in a tub of shallow water to soak then promptly went outside and forgot about him. I came back in SEVERAL HOURS later to find a pretty unhappy russian in a tub of the dirtiest water you ever saw!!

What you want is to leave him in there long enough that he starts to scramble trying to get out. He gets upset and it' s BOMBS AWAY!!!

 

[Tom]

Okay think I'm going to cancel the procedure then. So I'm out at the moment but I've attached one of the photos of the table I got when I first made it. He's got a different bath now with a slope and obviously this was a starting point for him, there's extra bits and bobs in there for him. Don't know if this is relevant but his substrate is a mix of coconut coir and orchid bark

The light I'll admit is wrong due to it being the combined one of heat and uv. I've got a uvb strip and heat lamp separate bulb now, I just need to work out how to fit it onto the table. The light is left on from 9am till 8pm. Temps in the basking spot (I use the laser thingy to measure these) range from 32-35°C and the cool side ranges from 22-24°C. Night time is usually about 19-22°C. Humidity has been a struggle, I'm not too sure how to keep it up in the day time (even with regular sprays) which normally ranges from 45-60%.

Baths are normally about 15-20 minutes long, do you think I should increase this?

Reading through your details, everything seems pretty good. Temps could be just a little warmer, the enclosure needs to be bigger, and a large viv will be the only way to get humidity up. Its very difficult to control heat or humidity with an open top like that. Adult torts can handle it, but closed chambers are better for babies.

I was pondering what could be the problem, and then I clicked on your picture. The moss. They eat it and it causes constipation/impaction. Remove that ASAP. I'll bet that is the problem, and it will likely pass without going to extremes with the vet. Your two substrates are ideal. I wouldn't change that.

Regular soaks should be 30-40 minutes. When you are having a problem 1 or 2 hours is fine. Keep the water warm the entire time, and when they scramble to get out, he is getting the exercise/locomotion that he needs. We call that the "tortoise treadmill".

Your tortoise needs a large are to walk around INSIDE his enclosure. Loose on the floor is too cold and its a recipe for one of many disaster that will eventually befall your tortoise. Leave him in his enclosure, and also have a large outdoor enclosure for fair weather. I recommend a minimum of 122cm x 61cm for babies, and 244x122 cm for adults.

Here is the current and correct care info. I don't agree with some of the info in the one Mark linked for you, but some of that info is good too:

The Best Way To Raise Any Temperate Species Of Tortoise

I chose the title of this care sheet very carefully. Are there other ways to raise babies and care for adults? Yes. Yes there are, but those ways are not as good. What follows is the BEST way, according to 30 years of research and experimentation with hundreds of babies of many species. What is...

tortoiseforum.org

 

[Emmajo]

Reading through your details, everything seems pretty good. Temps could be just a little warmer, the enclosure needs to be bigger, and a large viv will be the only way to get humidity up. Its very difficult to control heat or humidity with an open top like that. Adult torts can handle it, but closed chambers are better for babies.

I was pondering what could be the problem, and then I clicked on your picture. The moss. They eat it and it causes constipation/impaction. Remove that ASAP. I'll bet that is the problem, and it will likely pass without going to extremes with the vet. Your two substrates are ideal. I wouldn't change that.

Regular soaks should be 30-40 minutes. When you are having a problem 1 or 2 hours is fine. Keep the water warm the entire time, and when they scramble to get out, he is getting the exercise/locomotion that he needs. We call that the "tortoise treadmill".

Your tortoise needs a large are to walk around INSIDE his enclosure. Loose on the floor is too cold and its a recipe for one of many disaster that will eventually befall your tortoise. Leave him in his enclosure, and also have a large outdoor enclosure for fair weather. I recommend a minimum of 122cm x 61cm for babies, and 244x122 cm for adults.

Here is the current and correct care info. I don't agree with some of the info in the one Mark linked for you, but some of that info is good too:

The Best Way To Raise Any Temperate Species Of Tortoise

I chose the title of this care sheet very carefully. Are there other ways to raise babies and care for adults? Yes. Yes there are, but those ways are not as good. What follows is the BEST way, according to 30 years of research and experimentation with hundreds of babies of many species. What is...

tortoiseforum.org

Thank you so much, this is super helpful information. Yeah the first time I went to the vets he recommended I get rid of the moss so it hasn't been in for a while.
I'll increase his bath time length to way longer than what he's been getting. I think his enclosure at the moment is 150cmx70cm, I haven't let him outside yet due to cold weather.

 

[MenagerieGrl]

And should it get that far....Was the feeding tube going to be surgically implanted?
My Gigantor after he stopped eating and I took him to the vet, they fed him through a feeding tube down his throat. It meant going to the vet e/o day.
Ultimately he passed, God bless my buddy soul...I'm still torn up about his passing...

 

[ZEROPILOT]

My Redfoot, Queen Bertha had an esophagustomy tube surgically implanted through her neck and directly into the upper stomach.
I would not do this with a tortoise that can not poop. Forcing food in that can not pass out is dangerous.
I like Tom's theory that it's a moss impaction. We see this fairly often. And most times it WILL pass.
Yvonne mentioned feeding treat food. This is also an excellent idea. At this point, any "natural" intake is good.
Also, long warm water soaks should help.
Keep us posted

 

[Emmajo]

My Redfoot, Queen Bertha had an esophagustomy tube surgically implanted through her neck and directly into the upper stomach.
I would not do this with a tortoise that can not poop. Forcing food in that can not pass out is dangerous.
I like Tom's theory that it's a moss impaction. We see this fairly often. And most times it WILL pass.
Yvonne mentioned feeding treat food. This is also an excellent idea. At this point, any "natural" intake is good.
Also, long warm water soaks should help.
Keep us posted

Yeah these helped so much thank you! I ended up doing super long soaks with the "treat" foods and, after a few days, bombs away! He started eating again pretty much immediately after as well as being much more active.
I've taken his faeces to the vets though just to check!
Thank you for all of your help!

 

[MenagerieGrl]

Yeah these helped so much thank you! I ended up doing super long soaks with the "treat" foods and, after a few days, bombs away! He started eating again pretty much immediately after as well as being much more active.
I've taken his faeces to the vets though just to check!
Thank you for all of your help!

Oh my Gosh! and the lonnnnnng soak does it again...

 

[ZEROPILOT]

Yeah these helped so much thank you! I ended up doing super long soaks with the "treat" foods and, after a few days, bombs away! He started eating again pretty much immediately after as well as being much more active.
I've taken his faeces to the vets though just to check!
Thank you for all of your help!

Fantastic news

 

[Sarah2020]

Hi, thank you so much for replying. This is the thing, I've been letting him roam in a separate area every day and he has warm baths everyday. I was worried that the vet was wrong for the feeding tube, especially because all my research on the topic mentioned nothing about it, because it seems extreme. Do you think I should cancel the operation?

Dandelions are in abundance go out for a walk, pick some, wash them if big slice in half and serve 2 or 3 and watch. My tort runs for fresh dandelions fun to watch and he is eating. Remaning dandelions I store in a container in the fridge for next 1 or 2 days and add to fresh leaves. Test and see.