Yeah usually their water is out but they were inside until
I brought them back out for thier photoshoot... Def will add more hides!
I brought them back out for thier photoshoot... Def will add more hides!
Few pics and input needed
- Thread starter Kristen
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You are doing fine, Kristen. 
I know you wanted replies from Sulcata owners....but just remember that bullying is not always outward...tortoises as a whole are masters of the unspoken bullying...I noticed on the overhead shot that the smaller tortoise shell kinda curves to the left {if you use the overhead shot and imagine a straight line from front to back over the center of shell his left side seems to not mirror the right side...does that make sense?} They are both beautiful...
ascott said:I know you wanted replies from Sulcata owners....but just remember that bullying is not always outward...tortoises as a whole are masters of the unspoken bullying...I noticed on the overhead shot that the smaller tortoise shell kinda curves to the left {if you use the overhead shot and imagine a straight line from front to back over the center of shell his left side seems to not mirror the right side...does that make sense?} They are both beautiful...
That's what I was referring to as far as Cletus's shell development. It looks like something internal but I don't know for sure myself.
Ascott- yes he is lopsided....sp? That is what first concerned me but I thought maybe he was just different..... Incubation issue or something, and he would out grow it. But he hasnt and is showing much more pyramiding signs than the other. The different size does not worry me b/c of my research on here just the shell growth.
Also on a head on shot you can see the difference in the "dome" one side higher than the other
Also on a head on shot you can see the difference in the "dome" one side higher than the other
M
Maggie Cummings
Guest
Kristen, you've gotten some expert advice for all concerned and yes, I suspect mental bullying. There is physical as well, look at how Lydia hogs the food dish. Can you put them in a bigger enclosure with more hides and sight breaks? Feed them separately and give Cletus more of a chance to get away from Lydia with more sight breaks. Just give Cletus his own food bowl away from the other one and see what happens...
Here are my thoughts in random order.
Your case is very interesting to me. It sounds like you are doing everything perfect. What are your four temps? Warm side, cool side, basking spot and night? How often do you feed Mazuri?
The growth lines on both of them are pretty pronounced, but their growth is not at all fast or excessive for their age.
Where did you get them and how were they housed before you got them? Most breeders keep them on dry rabbit pellets with no water bowl or hides and a hot light. They desiccate very quickly under those circumstances. I have a three year old that looks pretty rough. She was housed dry for the first three months and then gradually wetter once I got her. She still has her original lumps, but even though her growth is all smooth now, she still has some odd lines and seams. I have seen this sort of thing in torts that have gone from one extreme to the other. It doesn't always happen, but it is one possible explanation.
The new growth on Cletus does look smooth which leads me to another possibility: This has nothing to do with you. The pattern for shell growth, smooth or not, is established in the first few weeks of life. It seems likely that he was in a beef jerky maker type set-up and you rescued him. The pattern (damage) was already set before you ever got him. I cannot explain why some tortoises are more susceptible than others to this. Why when they hatch together and are kept identically dry does one have a problem and the other not. Happens all the time. A seller will sell 100 out of the same set up and some will make it and some will not. Some will pyramid worse than others and no one really knows why.
Last thing. I would separate them. Pair seldom work out. One of them is dominant and it will cause at least some stress to the other whether you actually witness anything or not. This COULD explain why you are seeing what you are seeing. Again why does it work sometimes, but not others? Don't know. Maybe personalities?
Overall they both look pretty good. Once Cletus gets around afoot or so, I'll bet you won't even be able to tell he had a rough start.
Your case is very interesting to me. It sounds like you are doing everything perfect. What are your four temps? Warm side, cool side, basking spot and night? How often do you feed Mazuri?
The growth lines on both of them are pretty pronounced, but their growth is not at all fast or excessive for their age.
Where did you get them and how were they housed before you got them? Most breeders keep them on dry rabbit pellets with no water bowl or hides and a hot light. They desiccate very quickly under those circumstances. I have a three year old that looks pretty rough. She was housed dry for the first three months and then gradually wetter once I got her. She still has her original lumps, but even though her growth is all smooth now, she still has some odd lines and seams. I have seen this sort of thing in torts that have gone from one extreme to the other. It doesn't always happen, but it is one possible explanation.
The new growth on Cletus does look smooth which leads me to another possibility: This has nothing to do with you. The pattern for shell growth, smooth or not, is established in the first few weeks of life. It seems likely that he was in a beef jerky maker type set-up and you rescued him. The pattern (damage) was already set before you ever got him. I cannot explain why some tortoises are more susceptible than others to this. Why when they hatch together and are kept identically dry does one have a problem and the other not. Happens all the time. A seller will sell 100 out of the same set up and some will make it and some will not. Some will pyramid worse than others and no one really knows why.
Last thing. I would separate them. Pair seldom work out. One of them is dominant and it will cause at least some stress to the other whether you actually witness anything or not. This COULD explain why you are seeing what you are seeing. Again why does it work sometimes, but not others? Don't know. Maybe personalities?
Overall they both look pretty good. Once Cletus gets around afoot or so, I'll bet you won't even be able to tell he had a rough start.
Hi Tom- I was wondering when you were going to chime in . I will do my best to answer your questions. First the temps.... Warms side stays between 85-90. Basking is 98-100. Cool side is 75. At night it usually drops to 70 however, I do have a red heat bulb over their humid hide. That was during the winter months when they were unable to get outside. Now they are outside from 8-11 AM back in during the hottest part of the day and back out 6-8:30pm. I feed Mazuri 2x a week. Mine really have not taken to it so I mix it really well with their greens and the grassland so they get little bites of it. I just offer it for variety really. I have had them one year this month. I was told they were two months hatched when I got them however thier egg tooth was still very visible when I got them. Their housing was not ideal. There were approx. 7 hathclings on play sand, eating romaine. I did ask if he soaked them or where their water source came from and he said they were soaked three times a week. Who knows. When I was a kid we raised box turtles growing up. We succesfully hatched several clusters of eggs and we had two russians as well, so I am not completely ignorant to caring for turtles and tortoises, however sulcatas are much more difficult. I did my research and new what needed to be done prior to getting these guys. I thought I was ready and doing everything as I should but was discouraged when Cletus's growth looked so much different. They seem healthy otherwise, active, eating, willingly going into their water dish, eyes bright and shiny... so it just may be him... I was hoping someone else had experienced this... I will work on a second indoor enclosure as well as a larger outdoor pen where I can put a board between the two sides. I am moving on the first and there is an area on the side of the house that would be perfect. It is about 10 feet by 5 feet and I can split it right in half.
Oh and I got them from a family owned pet shop in katy, tx that had a very few animals esp. Reptiles but all the reptiles looked great. .... I looked at another set a week prior that were a bit older from an exotic pet shop in Houston and they did not look healthy or active.
I just went and checked lydia is in the hide and cletus is eating the clover out of his grass weed mix
. I will do my best to answer your questions. First the temps.... Warms side stays between 85-90. Basking is 98-100. Cool side is 75. At night it usually drops to 70 however, I do have a red heat bulb over their humid hide. That was during the winter months when they were unable to get outside. Now they are outside from 8-11 AM back in during the hottest part of the day and back out 6-8:30pm. I feed Mazuri 2x a week. Mine really have not taken to it so I mix it really well with their greens and the grassland so they get little bites of it. I just offer it for variety really. I have had them one year this month. I was told they were two months hatched when I got them however thier egg tooth was still very visible when I got them. Their housing was not ideal. There were approx. 7 hathclings on play sand, eating romaine. I did ask if he soaked them or where their water source came from and he said they were soaked three times a week. Who knows. When I was a kid we raised box turtles growing up. We succesfully hatched several clusters of eggs and we had two russians as well, so I am not completely ignorant to caring for turtles and tortoises, however sulcatas are much more difficult. I did my research and new what needed to be done prior to getting these guys. I thought I was ready and doing everything as I should but was discouraged when Cletus's growth looked so much different. They seem healthy otherwise, active, eating, willingly going into their water dish, eyes bright and shiny... so it just may be him... I was hoping someone else had experienced this... I will work on a second indoor enclosure as well as a larger outdoor pen where I can put a board between the two sides. I am moving on the first and there is an area on the side of the house that would be perfect. It is about 10 feet by 5 feet and I can split it right in half. Oh and I got them from a family owned pet shop in katy, tx that had a very few animals esp. Reptiles but all the reptiles looked great. .... I looked at another set a week prior that were a bit older from an exotic pet shop in Houston and they did not look healthy or active.
I just went and checked lydia is in the hide and cletus is eating the clover out of his grass weed mix
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