Fighting Tots!

[CharlieBlossom]

I am just looking for a little bit of advice, I have two 4 year old Mediterranean spur thighed babies, who i have recently discovered are boys.

The have both lived together from hatching and have had no bother until now living together and they used to follow each other about like little shadows! The trouble only started about 2 weeks ago when i temporarily housed another male (in different accommodation and different rooms) but i did let them meet to see how they would get on... they didn't and kept my little ones separate from the big one at all times as the big one picked on the little ones... Now one of my little ones are constantly picking on the other, ramming into his shell and mounting him anytime he sees him.

The question is will i have to separate them permanently or will a temporary separation time be enough? They never had any bother till this other one came along and he has since left. I love them both too much to even consider giving one away.

Any advise would be fantastic :shy:

 

[mcory]

Everything I have read on here seems to suggest never keeping 2 torts together for the exact reason you are worried about:/ you will probably need to separate them ASAP and probably keep them separate so no one gets hurt! I hope those with more knowledge will answer you...

 

[Levi the Leopard]

When I read you write, "they followed each other around like shadows" I want to say it's because the dominant one was trying to chase the other out of his territory. Not because they wanted to be together.

Housing pairs is different than housing a group. Housing males is different than a male with a few females. Housing them inside the average enclosure is different than housing them outside in a large natural setting.

 

[Yvonne G]

To answer your question, no, they will never be back to living in peace together. You will have to set up another totally separate habitat and keep them apart.

 

[bouaboua]

To answer your question, no, they will never be back to living in peace together. You will have to set up another totally separate habitat and keep them apart.

So may I say safely?

1.1 - Okay.
1.2 - Okay.
2.1 - Not OK.
1-1 Not OK also??

 

[Levi the Leopard]

Typically a 1:1 is not ok because he can harass her to death, literally.

 

[Yvonne G]

Your last one should read - 2.0, which is not ok.

 

[Tom]

I am just looking for a little bit of advice, I have two 4 year old Mediterranean spur thighed babies, who i have recently discovered are boys.

The have both lived together from hatching and have had no bother until now living together and they used to follow each other about like little shadows! The trouble only started about 2 weeks ago when i temporarily housed another male (in different accommodation and different rooms) but i did let them meet to see how they would get on... they didn't and kept my little ones separate from the big one at all times as the big one picked on the little ones... Now one of my little ones are constantly picking on the other, ramming into his shell and mounting him anytime he sees him.

The question is will i have to separate them permanently or will a temporary separation time be enough? They never had any bother till this other one came along and he has since left. I love them both too much to even consider giving one away.

Any advise would be fantastic :shy:

At 4 they aren't babies anymore. They are exhibiting normal tortoise behavior.

I agree that the following behavior IS tortoise aggression. That and other signs have probably been there for a long time.

They should not have been housed as a pair for the last four years. Its great that you got away with it, but your luck has run out. Time to separate them permanently.

No need to give one away. Simply build another enclosure and move the bully there. Two outdoor enclosures for fair weather too. Lots of us have multiple enclosures. Its really easy.

 

[Jlant85]

Separate permanently is the best answer but to my experience (people don't hate me!) I have a female who does this. I mean I couldn't keep her on the same enclosure with others period! I spoke to this one breeder I know and he advised me to keep her with the male for about a week. Male rams and mounted her every other day or so... I hates seeing it but I did it anyways. After a week, I placed her back with the others and to my surprise she stopped being aggressive! It's an orthodox but it worked! I monitored her everyday! I mean from the time I get home from with till I go to bed. She hasn't rammed it mount the other anymore. My breeder tells me he does this with his male and with great success. Just be careful because they can get over stressed.

It's a mix feeling for me about the procedures. I don't like putting my torts to that situation.

 

[james1974]

Build a bigger habitat with site breaks is one option.Build a bigger habitat with site breaks and add four to six female's.I use one male to four female's to a group.Their is always bumping and raming until they establish a group pecking order.Females will even ram male's and female's when they are about to lay I've even seen my females trying to mount the male's and female's right before laying eggs.It's tough to watch but that's what happens when you group animals iv seen it even when raising baby's as long as there all getting enough food water and no blood shed they always work out the territory of who's top boss it's a natural instinct,after year's of a group together iv even seen the top dogs of the group became second in line,iv never had any blood shed with my animals and every one gets plenty of food.There's always going to be raming weather or not there all male's female's or mixed together it's going to happen in a group setting period.but more space site breaks hides and enough female's will help but you will see it when it's breeding season it's the tortoise way.Other wise if can't handle seeing this you need to separate them and don't try having groups of animals because this is what happens.If this is a foundation of a group your starting and are going to add more female's leave them together so they can establish rank.Just monitor them by making sure they both stay active eat drink and do not develop any injuries they should be fine.If one is not eating drinking and injured separate them but iv never had to but I still monitor mine to be on the safe side...Bigger housing site breaks and hides will help allot.good luck!