Whats going on people I'm new to the site and to tortoises, Over the past few months I've become increasingly interested in tortoises I think they're magnificent creatures,my question is what would the ideal first tortoise be ? In terms of size I'm looking for a species that won't grow big,something that will remain small and in small I mean 6 -10 inch range,what do y'all think ?
First buy ?? Need help
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You're going to get many different opinions, and you need to do your research and make your own decision. Here's MY opinion:
A good first tortoise for a beginner tortoise-keeper is a Russian tortoise. they stay fairly small, are easy to feed and aside from requiring a lot of space to wander, are pretty easy to set up.
In my opinion, any tortoise that you get needs to have a permanent outdoor enclosure. Then during the times when weather doesn't permit, he would come indoors and live in his TEMPORARY indoor enclosure.
The initial cost of the tortoise is pretty small compared to the costs of all his equipment and supplies. If he's going to live indoors, you need the tort table or a large plastic bin (a Christmas tree tote is good), then there's the substrate, a hiding place, maybe some knick-knacks to act as sight barriers, the UV light.
Please take my advice and DON'T get a baby tortoise. Get something older and learn and make your mistakes with an older, more established tortoise. Then when you have some experience under your belt if you still want a baby, go for it.
Let us know what you decide, and if you have a specific question, I'm glad to help.
A good first tortoise for a beginner tortoise-keeper is a Russian tortoise. they stay fairly small, are easy to feed and aside from requiring a lot of space to wander, are pretty easy to set up.
In my opinion, any tortoise that you get needs to have a permanent outdoor enclosure. Then during the times when weather doesn't permit, he would come indoors and live in his TEMPORARY indoor enclosure.
The initial cost of the tortoise is pretty small compared to the costs of all his equipment and supplies. If he's going to live indoors, you need the tort table or a large plastic bin (a Christmas tree tote is good), then there's the substrate, a hiding place, maybe some knick-knacks to act as sight barriers, the UV light.
Please take my advice and DON'T get a baby tortoise. Get something older and learn and make your mistakes with an older, more established tortoise. Then when you have some experience under your belt if you still want a baby, go for it.
Let us know what you decide, and if you have a specific question, I'm glad to help.
Thanks for the advice I appreciate it, I have been doing some research and I am leaning towards the Russian tortoise.
I live in an apartment so he's going to have to live indoors.In terms of housing what do you think about wooden enclosures?
I've seen a couple pictures of custom built enclosures and they look very nice.Building it wouldn't be a problem as I have carpenter experience and have built many things since the age of 10.I have a question how would one clean the wooden enclosure ? Would I even have to clean it or leave it alone aside from changing the substrate? Does the substrate get cleaned as well ? and if so how many times a week? Sorry if these questions seem foolish I'm really new to this
thank you
I live in an apartment so he's going to have to live indoors.In terms of housing what do you think about wooden enclosures?
I've seen a couple pictures of custom built enclosures and they look very nice.Building it wouldn't be a problem as I have carpenter experience and have built many things since the age of 10.I have a question how would one clean the wooden enclosure ? Would I even have to clean it or leave it alone aside from changing the substrate? Does the substrate get cleaned as well ? and if so how many times a week? Sorry if these questions seem foolish I'm really new to this
thank you
No, your questions are not foolish at all. Asking questions is one way to learn.
There's one person on the forum who used a high gloss, water-proof paint on the wooden tort table. Other people line the inside with some sort of plastic liner. A shower curtain liner works well for this.
If you spot clean...that is, if you pick up the poop as you see it, then you don't need to change the substrate until you think it is past its prime. You can usually tell when its time to toss it and get fresh. Some of my indoor habitats last all season, others have to be changed more often.
There's one person on the forum who used a high gloss, water-proof paint on the wooden tort table. Other people line the inside with some sort of plastic liner. A shower curtain liner works well for this.
If you spot clean...that is, if you pick up the poop as you see it, then you don't need to change the substrate until you think it is past its prime. You can usually tell when its time to toss it and get fresh. Some of my indoor habitats last all season, others have to be changed more often.
A redfoot is a a good start. Thats what I started with.
I live in an apartment too with my Russian, Ernie. He does well inside, but we have been taking him on "walks" at nearby grassy fields, probably about 3-4 times a week, for about an hour at a time. We do have a patio, but it doesn't face the sun and is always really pretty cold, otherwise I'd make an enclosure out there for him too. He seems to get antsy when hes inside for too long [now that hes beginning to realize the pattern of these walks], and sometimes we take him on extra walks when I see this happening. Then when he comes back inside, he much calmer, and most of the time takes a little nap. Just make sure wherever you walk him, there isn't dog/cat poo laying around.
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Russian tortoises are a good first tortoise. They stay small as adults, 5 1/2" to 7 1/2", occasionally larger. They are typically very hardy, active and curious. I have never had any health or other problems with them. In my experience they are like little tanks! Small adult Russian tortoises are commonly available nowadays in pet shops and on the internet. For someone starting out they might be a better choice than a young tortoise. They are also probably the least expensive tortoise available at the moment too.
Eastern & Dalmatian tortoises are also good choices. Eastern Hermann's are usually larger as adults than Russian tortoises. Dalmatians are often smaller than both Russians or Easterns. They are equally as hardy, active and in most cases more curious than Russians.
Any of the three can be kept almost identical in captivity. Because most, if not all tortoise species are very nomadic they should be housed in as large an enclosure as possible based on their body size. Younger tortoises can be kept in enclosures a bit smaller but in my opinion you can't make an adult's enclosure big enough! If at all possible a safe, secure outdoor enclosure should be in the plans too during warmer weather.
Eastern & Dalmatian tortoises are also good choices. Eastern Hermann's are usually larger as adults than Russian tortoises. Dalmatians are often smaller than both Russians or Easterns. They are equally as hardy, active and in most cases more curious than Russians.
Any of the three can be kept almost identical in captivity. Because most, if not all tortoise species are very nomadic they should be housed in as large an enclosure as possible based on their body size. Younger tortoises can be kept in enclosures a bit smaller but in my opinion you can't make an adult's enclosure big enough! If at all possible a safe, secure outdoor enclosure should be in the plans too during warmer weather.
Thanks for the info ..Dalmatian tortoise ? I've never heard of them before could some please tell me about them,they sound interesting.
What about lighting? whats the deal with lighting,I've seen pictures where people have placed 3-5 lights in their tortoise enclosure while others placed 1-2? If I was to get a Russian tortoise or a dalmatian tortoise what lighting fixture would I need?
Would it be the same for both ? How high would the lights need to be placed? Is it possible that the lights could be set to hot and hurt the tortoise?
What about lighting? whats the deal with lighting,I've seen pictures where people have placed 3-5 lights in their tortoise enclosure while others placed 1-2? If I was to get a Russian tortoise or a dalmatian tortoise what lighting fixture would I need?
Would it be the same for both ? How high would the lights need to be placed? Is it possible that the lights could be set to hot and hurt the tortoise?
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Ulises,
Dalmatian tortoises (Testudo hermanni hercegovinensis) are a subspecies of Hermann's along with Eastern Hermann's (T. h. boettgeri) and the nominate Western Hermann's race (T. h. hermanni). Some Dalmatians look very much like Eastern's and are often mistaken for Eastern's. There is still much debate about whether or not they are a true subspecies or just a variation of the the Easterns. For the time being, most people her in the U.S. are embracing them as their own subspecies. One major problem with being able to identify true Dalmatians from Easterns is the fact that for many years now the two subspecies have been interbred in captivity because until recently the two were not being distinguished as seperate subspecies. So anyone looking is also likely to encounter some hybrids too. There is absolutely nothing wrong with them as pets. Breeders prefer purebreds in order to keep the subspecies true. When comparing a purebred Dalmatian side by side with a purebred Eastern the differences in appearance and shell structure are usually obvious.
In general the Dalmatians stay smaller than Easterns as adults and some races of Dalmatians are even smaller than the "dwarf" Western Hermann's. For example, my largest Dalmatian female is about 6 3/4" SCL and the rest average 6"-6 1/2". My largest male is 5 1/2". Eastern Hermann's are typically larger overall with females being 6 1/2"-8 1/2" and males 5 1/2"-6 1/2". Occasionally larger male and female Easterns can be found, these are only averages. True Dalmatians almost always have more black & yellow color contrast than Easterns. Their carapace tends to be a bit higher domed and their bodies often rounder when viewed from above as opposed to Easterns that tend to flatten out on top a bit and have a more egg shaped (think chicken egg) body. There are other notable differences in the two subspecies but in general they are equally good pets and have the same captive requirements. In the attached photos the Dalmatian female is on the left, the Eastern female on the right. Both are approximately 6 1/2".
AT the top of the Hermann's Hangout section on this site HermmaniChris has an excellent Hermann's subspecies comparison post that gives more details of their differences than I have here.
Dalmatian tortoises (Testudo hermanni hercegovinensis) are a subspecies of Hermann's along with Eastern Hermann's (T. h. boettgeri) and the nominate Western Hermann's race (T. h. hermanni). Some Dalmatians look very much like Eastern's and are often mistaken for Eastern's. There is still much debate about whether or not they are a true subspecies or just a variation of the the Easterns. For the time being, most people her in the U.S. are embracing them as their own subspecies. One major problem with being able to identify true Dalmatians from Easterns is the fact that for many years now the two subspecies have been interbred in captivity because until recently the two were not being distinguished as seperate subspecies. So anyone looking is also likely to encounter some hybrids too. There is absolutely nothing wrong with them as pets. Breeders prefer purebreds in order to keep the subspecies true. When comparing a purebred Dalmatian side by side with a purebred Eastern the differences in appearance and shell structure are usually obvious.
In general the Dalmatians stay smaller than Easterns as adults and some races of Dalmatians are even smaller than the "dwarf" Western Hermann's. For example, my largest Dalmatian female is about 6 3/4" SCL and the rest average 6"-6 1/2". My largest male is 5 1/2". Eastern Hermann's are typically larger overall with females being 6 1/2"-8 1/2" and males 5 1/2"-6 1/2". Occasionally larger male and female Easterns can be found, these are only averages. True Dalmatians almost always have more black & yellow color contrast than Easterns. Their carapace tends to be a bit higher domed and their bodies often rounder when viewed from above as opposed to Easterns that tend to flatten out on top a bit and have a more egg shaped (think chicken egg) body. There are other notable differences in the two subspecies but in general they are equally good pets and have the same captive requirements. In the attached photos the Dalmatian female is on the left, the Eastern female on the right. Both are approximately 6 1/2".
AT the top of the Hermann's Hangout section on this site HermmaniChris has an excellent Hermann's subspecies comparison post that gives more details of their differences than I have here.
Thanks for the info and you have some beautiful looking tortoises.
I just came across this site and it has a starter kit,it comes with an enclosure, lights and many other things
I want to run it by you guys what do you think? heres the link check it out and tell me what y'all think...
http://www.bluebeastreptile.com/ind...ent&view=category&layout=blog&id=50&Itemid=69
I just came across this site and it has a starter kit,it comes with an enclosure, lights and many other things
I want to run it by you guys what do you think? heres the link check it out and tell me what y'all think...
http://www.bluebeastreptile.com/ind...ent&view=category&layout=blog&id=50&Itemid=69
This is a reputable company, however, I feel the habitat is only suitable for a hatchling-sized tortoise. It is very small. You could probably buy all those items at Home Depot or Lowe's, and then buy a Christmas tree storage bin from K-Mart of Wal-Mart and I think it would be a lot cheaper, and no shipping.
Read this thread and scroll down to see pictures of the bin I'm talking about:
http://tortoiseforum.org/thread-10512.html?highlight=christmas+tree+storage+bin
Read this thread and scroll down to see pictures of the bin I'm talking about:
http://tortoiseforum.org/thread-10512.html?highlight=christmas+tree+storage+bin
Thats a great looking enclosure.I've finally made the decision..I will be buying a Russian tortoise.Today I went to a reptile expo show and was blown away by all the creatures.They had lizards,snakes,spiders and of course tortoises and turtles. They didn't have any Russians at the show only red,yellow foots and sulcatas. I asked plenty questions and I was able to pick up the little guys.I was SO tempted to buy them but I had to restrain myself as a purchase would of been irresponsible of me as I do not have the proper equipment to care for the tortoise but I will soon and when I have enough information I will make my purchase.
I have some more questions I want to thank everyone so far y'all have been a great help to me.
Hibernation I've read conflicting information about this subject,do russian tortoises hibernate?
Is it a natural occurrence in captivity? Could you make them not go into hibernation?
How often do they use the washroom ? lol
Do tortoise give out an odor ?And if so what do they smell like ? lol
At the reptile show I didn't notice any smell coming from the tortoise but then again I wasn't exactly sniffing them lol
..Plants,whats the deal with plants Almost every tort enclosure that I've seen had some kind of plant in it
Are plants vital to a tortoises enclosure ? do they NEED plants or is it just for decorations?
Is wood glue toxic to torts?
Bed time,do they have a specific time when they go to sleep?Do they follow human sleeping patterns,sleeping at night
and waking up in the morning?
Lighting..I'm confused about lighting,since I will be keeping him indoors what lighting/heating fixtures will I need? I really need to know this.I live in an apartment so keeping the light all day for the tort wouldn't be a problem,Do the lights always remain on?
And last but not least lol, males vs females,In terms of social behaviour how different do they interact and react within there enclosure and with people? Is character based on gender or personality ? This being my first tort should I buy a female or a male
does it really mater? Are males more docile then females ? or vice versa
I know its alot of question I've become so interested with these creatures I want to know everything about them lol
I know I have ALOT to learn I appreciate all the help I can get. thank you
I have some more questions I want to thank everyone so far y'all have been a great help to me.
Hibernation I've read conflicting information about this subject,do russian tortoises hibernate?
Is it a natural occurrence in captivity? Could you make them not go into hibernation?
How often do they use the washroom ? lol
Do tortoise give out an odor ?And if so what do they smell like ? lol
At the reptile show I didn't notice any smell coming from the tortoise but then again I wasn't exactly sniffing them lol
..Plants,whats the deal with plants Almost every tort enclosure that I've seen had some kind of plant in it
Are plants vital to a tortoises enclosure ? do they NEED plants or is it just for decorations?
Is wood glue toxic to torts?
Bed time,do they have a specific time when they go to sleep?Do they follow human sleeping patterns,sleeping at night
and waking up in the morning?
Lighting..I'm confused about lighting,since I will be keeping him indoors what lighting/heating fixtures will I need? I really need to know this.I live in an apartment so keeping the light all day for the tort wouldn't be a problem,Do the lights always remain on?
And last but not least lol, males vs females,In terms of social behaviour how different do they interact and react within there enclosure and with people? Is character based on gender or personality ? This being my first tort should I buy a female or a male
does it really mater? Are males more docile then females ? or vice versa
I know its alot of question I've become so interested with these creatures I want to know everything about them lol
I know I have ALOT to learn I appreciate all the help I can get. thank you
One of your questions jumped out at me and I have to address the lighting issue.
The sun comes up every morning, and goes down every evening. This is a natural, every day occurrence. If you are keeping your tortoise indoors, then his sun HAS to come up in the morning and go down in the evening. If you don't want to keep a light on when you're not home, then maybe you need to re-think the idea of having a tortoise indoors. This is pretty important to the tortoise.
Lights for a redfoot tortoise aren't that important. You can keep the heat up for a redfoot by using a ceramic heat emitter.
The sun comes up every morning, and goes down every evening. This is a natural, every day occurrence. If you are keeping your tortoise indoors, then his sun HAS to come up in the morning and go down in the evening. If you don't want to keep a light on when you're not home, then maybe you need to re-think the idea of having a tortoise indoors. This is pretty important to the tortoise.
Lights for a redfoot tortoise aren't that important. You can keep the heat up for a redfoot by using a ceramic heat emitter.
Well, I don't know a whole lot about torts, but I CAN tell you a tort's lights need to be turned off at night. If kept inside, it NEEDS UVB and, of course, heat--a good "combo" fixture for this is Mercury-vapor bulbs. They emit both heat and UVB. IME, it's usually recommended to keep lights on for ~12 hours, but this can vary considerably by species... i.e., some only need 8 hours of light, while others might prefer 12-14 hours.
Also, it seems to me that the "deal" with (live) plants is a fresh food source (since the best/favorite food sources are either unavailable or rare in stores) for the torts. They also help keep up humidity for moderate- and high-humidity torts, keep air "fresh" in otherwise stagnant enclosures, and, yes, serve as decoration.
Also, it seems to me that the "deal" with (live) plants is a fresh food source (since the best/favorite food sources are either unavailable or rare in stores) for the torts. They also help keep up humidity for moderate- and high-humidity torts, keep air "fresh" in otherwise stagnant enclosures, and, yes, serve as decoration.
Hi Ulises, first let me say Welcome and I am glad you are doing research and being a responsible owner before you even get your tortoise. : ) It will hopefully make things easier later. Now to your questions. I have Greeks not Russians though I have fostered a few. Hibernation is always a topic with conflicting ideas. Yes Russian tortoises do hibernate in the wild. You can make the decision to hibernate or not. Lots of keepers do not hibernate simply by keeping the temperature and light up. They have found no ill effects from not hibernating. If you hibernate your Russian you let it cool and decrease the lighting. The from about Nov-March they sleep. The decision is really up to you however I most keepers will tell you do not hibernate the first year to make sure your tortoise is healthy.
Tortoise go to the washroom : ) whenever they want too. Usually it is at least a daily thing and often in there water. Most tortoises will only go if they have a readily available replenishment available. So you will want to have a water source in their enclosure so they have that source of water and you will need to keep it clean, because not only do they drink from it but they use it for a bathroom.
Plants are used as food, a sight barrier and a hide plus all the other reasons listed before.
Is wood glue toxic to torts, You know I really don’t know I would think once dried and cured it would be OK. I personally like to use Aquarium silicone. Which works well non toxic to tortoise once dry and is water tight.
Sleep patterns, mine do sleep at night. Most will acclimate to your pattern of sleep, as long as you have the lights off at night they know it is night. RE lighting as Yvonne stated. Yes a Russian will need it’s lights on during the daytime. That should not be a problem, even in an apartment. You can use a long florecent UVB light and a Heat lamp such as an Infrared, black light or Ceramic Heat Emitter (CHE) (Tortoises can not see the light from an Infrared or black light and a CHE emits no light) or you can use a Mercury Vapor Bulb (MVB) (Heat and uvb all in one bulb.) As long as you have your apartment about 65 or above at night you would not need a heat source at night. But they must have a way to get their body temps to around 85 or above during the day and that is where the daylight source comes in.
Males vs Females re social behavior. If you talk to and handle your tortoise regularly for soakings or hand feeding it will become social regardless of its gender.
RE Habitat:
How to build a tort table (Instructions)
http://russiantortoise.net/tortoise_table.htm
This is the pre built Zoo Med tortoise house: (on sale today $99.00)
dimensions: it is 36" L X 24" W X 12" H with a wire top
http://www.petco.com/petco_Page_PC_productlist_Nav_1019_N_27+30+5006.aspx
I have the large house that Blue beast reptile has but I too think it is too small for a adult Russian. Hatchings it is fine for. And I love that is its made out of light wt materials.
Tortoise go to the washroom : ) whenever they want too. Usually it is at least a daily thing and often in there water. Most tortoises will only go if they have a readily available replenishment available. So you will want to have a water source in their enclosure so they have that source of water and you will need to keep it clean, because not only do they drink from it but they use it for a bathroom.
Plants are used as food, a sight barrier and a hide plus all the other reasons listed before.
Is wood glue toxic to torts, You know I really don’t know I would think once dried and cured it would be OK. I personally like to use Aquarium silicone. Which works well non toxic to tortoise once dry and is water tight.
Sleep patterns, mine do sleep at night. Most will acclimate to your pattern of sleep, as long as you have the lights off at night they know it is night. RE lighting as Yvonne stated. Yes a Russian will need it’s lights on during the daytime. That should not be a problem, even in an apartment. You can use a long florecent UVB light and a Heat lamp such as an Infrared, black light or Ceramic Heat Emitter (CHE) (Tortoises can not see the light from an Infrared or black light and a CHE emits no light) or you can use a Mercury Vapor Bulb (MVB) (Heat and uvb all in one bulb.) As long as you have your apartment about 65 or above at night you would not need a heat source at night. But they must have a way to get their body temps to around 85 or above during the day and that is where the daylight source comes in.
Males vs Females re social behavior. If you talk to and handle your tortoise regularly for soakings or hand feeding it will become social regardless of its gender.
RE Habitat:
How to build a tort table (Instructions)
http://russiantortoise.net/tortoise_table.htm
This is the pre built Zoo Med tortoise house: (on sale today $99.00)
dimensions: it is 36" L X 24" W X 12" H with a wire top
http://www.petco.com/petco_Page_PC_productlist_Nav_1019_N_27+30+5006.aspx
I have the large house that Blue beast reptile has but I too think it is too small for a adult Russian. Hatchings it is fine for. And I love that is its made out of light wt materials.
Thanks for the information Crazy1 this is good stuff,it clears up alot.I live in Canada so it is cold/cool year long except for summer where our temperature varies anywhere between 24 to 34 degree Celsius or 75 to 93 degrees Fahrenheit, 93 degrees not being too often and 82 degrees being close to average.Winters here are very cold with temperatures reaching below freezing point,below zero degree Celsius.Just to clarify I would need a UVB light and a Heat lamp and both stay on all day and and go off at night ? right lol If I were to plant flowers and plants would I have to put soil on the substrate or would I have to plant in a container ? I'm guessing the UVB light would have to be right over the plants to promote growth ?
Thanks again your information has been extremely helpful !!!!!
Thanks again your information has been extremely helpful !!!!!
Daytime:
Depending on your setups; if you are using a long florescent UVB bulb that also gives of UVA (for plants) it does not produce any heat, so yes you would then need an source of heat or a heat bulb, etc. If you are using a MVB that produces both UVB/UVA and Heat then you only need the one bulb.
Nighttime:
If your house temperature does not drop below 65 at night then you would not need a heat source at night. If it does or your enclosure does, then you need to have a heat source. Reptiles do not see the light given off by infrared or black light so you can use those at night or the Ceramic Heat Emitter (CHE).
Your plants should do fine with a UVB/UVA light Remember they are usually placed about 12-14 inches above the substrate so make sure you check the bulb to see what height you need it will say on the box.
Depending on your setups; if you are using a long florescent UVB bulb that also gives of UVA (for plants) it does not produce any heat, so yes you would then need an source of heat or a heat bulb, etc. If you are using a MVB that produces both UVB/UVA and Heat then you only need the one bulb.
Nighttime:
If your house temperature does not drop below 65 at night then you would not need a heat source at night. If it does or your enclosure does, then you need to have a heat source. Reptiles do not see the light given off by infrared or black light so you can use those at night or the Ceramic Heat Emitter (CHE).
Your plants should do fine with a UVB/UVA light Remember they are usually placed about 12-14 inches above the substrate so make sure you check the bulb to see what height you need it will say on the box.
Welcome to the group! You have some great advice here so no need for me to repeat anything. Best of luck.
Another questions.. I've been searching on the net looking for lights to buy for my future tortoise,There are many options out there is brand y'all would recommend for a Russian tortoise? It's quite overwhelming looking at all the lights out there.50W,100W,150W bulbs What is the difference and what bulb should be used for a Russian tort? Thanks very much !
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