For those who have gone to shows. . .

[Tom]

For someone like myself who is getting ready to be a vendor for the first time, there is a lot of great information in this thread. I can only say that I am grateful that I am not doing this in order to make money. I am looking forward to the experience, and am fully prepared to spend more than I make. That definitely takes away a lot of the pressure! My main desire is to do evrything “right”.

Good for you man. Its a neat experience. I did it with roaches. It was kinda fun for me and I was lucky to be given some booth space by a friend who had been to the shows and knew what he was doing.

What will you be selling? Skinks? Torts? I may have to stay an extra day and come say hi.

 

[Kapidolo Farms]

The most fun I had at a show was when I ran a table to solicit funds for my conservation program. Might have had a burger booth at a Vegan convention, but the few who gave more than an awkward glance as they hurried by were some of the best contacts I made for furthering that program.

I've only collectively done three or four shows for any reason, and that had been enough to prompt the interest that started this thread. I'm glad it been informative.

Will

 

[TylerStewart]

Someone asked me to chime in on this thread with show financial info "behind the scenes" LOL. I was just talking to Ralph (Vegas Leopard) about this, as he helped me this weekend at the Las Vegas Reptile Expo. I gave him some typical show figures in expenses and in income prior to the show, and during the show this weekend, he saw those numbers play out pretty typical for a show (he ran the booth more than anyone, alongside my wife, as I was running the Vegas show itself). He can chime in about his experience with us (if you see this, Ralph).

In my experience, probably 1/3 of the shows I do are net losses financially. Another 1/3 are probably real close to breaking even. I don't necessarily care, though, because I'm doing shows to promote my website, not to make a financial gain come Monday. I hope that they see pretty tortoises at my booth, think my wife is a babe, grab a business card and buy a tortoise from us next week after they do their research. We'll use San Diego next weekend as an example. For expenses, my booth was $600 for the show. I'll have at least $300 in hotel costs ($100-120+ per night for two nights, and there's almost always substantial parking costs). I'll spend around $100 each way in gasoline to get there, I'll eat out at every meal ($???), and I'll pay for babysitters to watch my kids ($300) and I'll pay for babysitters to watch my tortoises ($100?). I miss work on Friday (unpaid) and I often miss work on Monday depending on where the show is (within a few hours, I can get home, get unpacked and get all shipments prepped the night I get home so I can be at work at 6-7 AM on Monday). There's many other minor costs in show supplies, unexpected costs, wear and tear on vehicles, flat tires, etc etc etc that average say another $100 per show. Without counting the lost income from not being at work or paying for my meals in SD, that's about $1,700 in expenses for me to go do this show. No matter what sells when I get there, I have that cost.

I think many people see a tortoise sell for $100 or $200 and just assume that it's money made. If I sell a 4" hermanns tortoise male for $200 (for example), it's a tortoise I paid (for example) $100 for and have fed, housed and cleaned for X amount of months, so say I made $70 on that tortoise. I'd need to sell 24 of those to break even, if that was a typical tortoise sold. Producing a baby tortoise certainly isn't free; I spend a ton of money maintaining the adults with the intent of producing babies... I won't even start going down the road of costs to maintain the parents of the babies that are sold (whole thread in itself). A vendor that goes into a show selling them at very low prices may sell well, but may have a hard time justifying their costs to be there. There's only so many people that walk in the door with the intent of buying a tortoise. The people that decide to buy one once they get there I think largely will have a difficult time with the tortoises that they buy. I don't think someone should ever be convinced that "a tortoise is the right pet for you." I think people need to decide that for themselves, and then you make the presentation.

Selling supplies is much more difficult.... By the time you pack up supplies, haul them to a show, set everything up on what is usually expensive table space, you can either try to sell them for a 40% margin and not sell anything (because the next guy over is selling supplies at a 30% margin), or you can sell them at a 20% margin and sell well, but not make enough money to pay for the table space they're sitting on. Then when someone returns a mercury vapor bulb on Sunday that they bought on Saturday that didn't work (for example) you just blew a big fat chunk of potential profit (as you sell the next 6 bulbs to cover the costs on the first one). We do supplies at some shows and not at others, but this past weekend we had a large selection and it just didn't sell well at all. I was competitively priced, but that doesn't always matter. There's only X amount of people that walk in the door looking for a ZooMed light stand.

In regard to the prices getting someone laughed at, I have no problem with any vendor having an obscene price on something. If it's worth that to him, by all means, put that as the price. I'm admittedly never the cheapest tortoises at any show I do. I'm not trying to blow anything out. If I can and do sell something regularly on the site for $100, why would I take them to a show and mark it at $50 to be competitive? I'd rather discount it a bit to $75 or $80 since I won't have to bother shipping it, sell a handful and take the rest home with me to ship a week later to all the people that just saw how pretty and healthy my tortoises are. People all the time will walk up at a show (or in this forum if my memory serves me) and throw a fit that they are $50 "over there," and how I'm going to be out of business with my crazy pricing, but to me that means absolutely nothing, as they aren't seeing anything from my point of view, or likely knowing what they're going to get for $50.

Of course I'm not complaining; I like getting out of town (all my personal friends anymore are other vendors), I like exposing the website, I like the tax write offs and the ultra sexy EcoBoost F150 that the tortoises pay for LOL. I'm fortunate that I still work a day job on top of this so I don't need to be completely picky when choosing whether or not to go do a show; if I can go and have a fun weekend and expect to break even, sign me up! The more difficult decisions are shows like Arlington TX or Puyallup, WA which I did both about 2 years ago and the distance just kills my enthusiasm and adds obscene costs, then after a bad show you have a 21 hour drive home to think "what the hell was I thinking going to Washington state?"

 

[Levi the Leopard]

Wonderful Tyler, thank you for sharing.

 

[cdmay]

Someone asked me to chime in on this thread with show financial info "behind the scenes" LOL. I was just talking to Ralph (Vegas Leopard) about this, as he helped me this weekend at the Las Vegas Reptile Expo. I gave him some typical show figures in expenses and in income prior to the show, and during the show this weekend, he saw those numbers play out pretty typical for a show (he ran the booth more than anyone, alongside my wife, as I was running the Vegas show itself). He can chime in about his experience with us (if you see this, Ralph).

In my experience, probably 1/3 of the shows I do are net losses financially. Another 1/3 are probably real close to breaking even. I don't necessarily care, though, because I'm doing shows to promote my website, not to make a financial gain come Monday. I hope that they see pretty tortoises at my booth, think my wife is a babe, grab a business card and buy a tortoise from us next week after they do their research. We'll use San Diego next weekend as an example. For expenses, my booth was $600 for the show. I'll have at least $300 in hotel costs ($100-120+ per night for two nights, and there's almost always substantial parking costs). I'll spend around $100 each way in gasoline to get there, I'll eat out at every meal ($???), and I'll pay for babysitters to watch my kids ($300) and I'll pay for babysitters to watch my tortoises ($100?). I miss work on Friday (unpaid) and I often miss work on Monday depending on where the show is (within a few hours, I can get home, get unpacked and get all shipments prepped the night I get home so I can be at work at 6-7 AM on Monday). There's many other minor costs in show supplies, unexpected costs, wear and tear on vehicles, flat tires, etc etc etc that average say another $100 per show. Without counting the lost income from not being at work or paying for my meals in SD, that's about $1,700 in expenses for me to go do this show. No matter what sells when I get there, I have that cost.

I think many people see a tortoise sell for $100 or $200 and just assume that it's money made. If I sell a 4" hermanns tortoise male for $200 (for example), it's a tortoise I paid (for example) $100 for and have fed, housed and cleaned for X amount of months, so say I made $70 on that tortoise. I'd need to sell 24 of those to break even, if that was a typical tortoise sold. Producing a baby tortoise certainly isn't free; I spend a ton of money maintaining the adults with the intent of producing babies... I won't even start going down the road of costs to maintain the parents of the babies that are sold (whole thread in itself). A vendor that goes into a show selling them at very low prices may sell well, but may have a hard time justifying their costs to be there. There's only so many people that walk in the door with the intent of buying a tortoise. The people that decide to buy one once they get there I think largely will have a difficult time with the tortoises that they buy. I don't think someone should ever be convinced that "a tortoise is the right pet for you." I think people need to decide that for themselves, and then you make the presentation.

Selling supplies is much more difficult.... By the time you pack up supplies, haul them to a show, set everything up on what is usually expensive table space, you can either try to sell them for a 40% margin and not sell anything (because the next guy over is selling supplies at a 30% margin), or you can sell them at a 20% margin and sell well, but not make enough money to pay for the table space they're sitting on. Then when someone returns a mercury vapor bulb on Sunday that they bought on Saturday that didn't work (for example) you just blew a big fat chunk of potential profit (as you sell the next 6 bulbs to cover the costs on the first one). We do supplies at some shows and not at others, but this past weekend we had a large selection and it just didn't sell well at all. I was competitively priced, but that doesn't always matter. There's only X amount of people that walk in the door looking for a ZooMed light stand.

In regard to the prices getting someone laughed at, I have no problem with any vendor having an obscene price on something. If it's worth that to him, by all means, put that as the price. I'm admittedly never the cheapest tortoises at any show I do. I'm not trying to blow anything out. If I can and do sell something regularly on the site for $100, why would I take them to a show and mark it at $50 to be competitive? I'd rather discount it a bit to $75 or $80 since I won't have to bother shipping it, sell a handful and take the rest home with me to ship a week later to all the people that just saw how pretty and healthy my tortoises are. People all the time will walk up at a show (or in this forum if my memory serves me) and throw a fit that they are $50 "over there," and how I'm going to be out of business with my crazy pricing, but to me that means absolutely nothing, as they aren't seeing anything from my point of view, or likely knowing what they're going to get for $50.

Of course I'm not complaining; I like getting out of town (all my personal friends anymore are other vendors), I like exposing the website, I like the tax write offs and the ultra sexy EcoBoost F150 that the tortoises pay for LOL. I'm fortunate that I still work a day job on top of this so I don't need to be completely picky when choosing whether or not to go do a show; if I can go and have a fun weekend and expect to break even, sign me up! The more difficult decisions are shows like Arlington TX or Puyallup, WA which I did both about 2 years ago and the distance just kills my enthusiasm and adds obscene costs, then after a bad show you have a 21 hour drive home to think "what the hell was I thinking going to Washington state?"

Excellent reply Tyler. You point out all of the expenses, worries and hassles that go into a show and yet at the end you point out that it is still worth it to you. Why? Because it allows you to do want you want in life and be a part of the hobby/industry. You work your butt off but aren't whiny about it.
As you point out though some shows simply aren't worth doing and one would assume that in time you will weed out such events.

In comparison I would cite my job. I'm a gardener on a five acre Palm Beach estate located on the ocean. Despite the location my job is dirty, sweaty and back breaking (literally) and I spent the last two weeks on top of ladders that were 12 to 20 feet tall while trimming trees. At the end of each day I was covered in sticky tree sap, had sweated off 6 or 8 pounds and had numerous cuts all over my arms, back and legs.
But the benefits? During the whole time I was able to look out over the ocean and watch the schools of migrating mullet get pounded by giant tarpon and sharks. I saw 5 migrating peregrine falcons fly right over my head and the migrating warblers started showing up too. My job is about as physically tough as you can imagine...every day. But I wouldn't trade it.

As regards laughing at some vendor's prices I should clarify what I meant...charging an extra $50.00 or so is one thing and I would gladly pay it for the knowledge that I am getting a good animal.
BUT, a vendor charging $675.00 for a yearling sized Staurotypus and advertising equally astonishing amounts for other rather common species is going to result in knowledgeable people at the show making comments.

 

[Kapidolo Farms]

Someone asked me to chime in on this thread with show financial info "behind the scenes" LOL. (etc. Will)

So in short, had you not been running the whole show, as it is, and just worked a table(s) at the local show, I'd guess you would not have to take time off from work, have hotel expenses, nor labor, or as much gas costs. Then the tables you use are like any retail space, there is a cost per square foot, and what you sell - that pays for that cost. That would drive the expenses down to the actual tables and time behind the table as well as set up and take down. Even your giant truck would not use so much gas for a local show. I've never had to pay for parking in vegas, but that's me looking to be thrifty.

That puts the whole weekend at about $500, plus or minus, with one table, that cost only going up by the margin for each additional table you secure for use.

I hope the overall show with table rentals to other vendors, and the "gate" make it a viable concern for you.

Good rundown of going to the expense of an "out of town" show. When your operation grows more you'll be able to have a specialty crew go and do all this remote for you, while you are able to stay at home, sorta like G. Bagnall and ZooMed.

Will

 

[TylerStewart]

So in short, had you not been running the whole show, as it is, and just worked a table(s) at the local show, I'd guess you would not have to take time off from work, have hotel expenses, nor labor, or as much gas costs. Then the tables you use are like any retail space, there is a cost per square foot, and what you sell - that pays for that cost. That would drive the expenses down to the actual tables and time behind the table as well as set up and take down. Even your giant truck would not use so much gas for a local show. I've never had to pay for parking in vegas, but that's me looking to be thrifty.

Correct, but in my example, I was using a typical out of town show (San Diego) as the example, which would have similar numbers/budget to about 80% of the shows I do. The Vegas show is of course the exception, but I think I did/am doing about 15 shows this year, only two of which were here in town.