Frustrating Food Eater

[Mondo Garden]

Hello!
I've got two baby sulcatas - about a year old. They live in a large, covered tortoise table with appropriate lights, temps and plenty of access to food.
One of the torts, Morla, is a full on beast. He/she eats great, is growing steady and regulates temps by utilizing different parts of the enclosure.

I've been sifting through this site for the last year and have learned a lot. They're kept under the conditions I found in Tom's "How to Raise a healthy Sulcata" post - except for the enclosure part - I've been able to keep high humidity and temps in the space I've built.

The problem I'm having is the second tort, Chomps - He is about half the size of his roommate and barely ever eats. For a while, he stopped opening his eyes, so I started the vitamin A soaks and that seemed to wake him up and then he started to eat again but only very little. He likes to find a spot in the cooler area of the enclosure (70 degrees) and then he'll sleep until I wake him up for a soak.

After the soak, he'll do some walking around with eyes open but when he goes to take a bite, he often misses the food. I've started handing feeding him, which seems to get his attention for a little bit, but then he just loses interest and goes back to sleep again.

I'd like to think it was the enclosure but Morla is so robust and happy and healthy in there, that I'm thinking there might be something I'm missing with Chomps. I know the temperature is almost always cause of the problem but I've got multiple meters and if anything, it's too hot. (but it's not)

Also, Morla and Chomps never interact with each other. There is no bullying and they have multiple feeding locations.

When we first got the tortoises and dialed the enclosure in, they were both super healthy eaters, poopers and very active. This downturn was rather sudden and didn't coincide with any major changes.

We live on a large garden property with a lot of grasses, weeds etc, so they have a natural diet of all that stuff, plus we beef that up with organic mixed greens. No iceberg lettuce or pellets. Just the good stuff like dandelion greens, grasses, mallow etc - with a sprinkle of calcium.

They both have hard shells, top and bottom, no pyramiding and they get time in the real sun.

I'm flummoxed and frustrated and hoping you guys & gals got some answers for me!

oh yeah! also, one more clue to this mystery is that when i hand feed him, he does best when the food to be held above his head, so he has to reach for it. Food down at eye level, right in front of his face, doesn't interest him.

Thanks for any advice you can give and all the help you've given me already, tortoiseforum!

and one more thing - I live in a rural area and we don't have a vet that'll see a tortoise anywhere near us. I'll drive this dude to the moon if i have to but hoping to avoid that.

 

[Tom]

You have at least three problems from what you've written above:
1. Tortoises should never live in pairs. They should have been separate when you got them. You got away with it for a while, but now its caught up with you. The smaller one is likely to die if you don't take action and separate them ASAP. Nobody ever wants to hear this, but its just the way it is.
2. Its too cold. No part of th enclosure should ever dip below 80. 70 is much too cold.
3. Tortoise tables don't work. Covering it it doesn't work either unless it is so covered, and with the lights inside, that it is no longer a tortoise table. They need closed chambers. Trying to maintain the right conditions in an open topped enclosure is like trying to maintain the right living conditions in your own home with no roof or ceiling. You can run the heater all you want, it isn't going to warm up enough.

What sort of UV bulbs are you using indoors?
How often do you put calcium on the food?

 

[Mondo Garden]

eek!
I was hoping to NOT hear that but I'll get them separated tomorrow.

They get Calcium every couple days and they also have a cuttlebone that has some beak marks from being chewed on, but I've never seen them touch it.

I have two UVB lights, both are LED and I have one of each for the spectrums - just because i bought the wrong one first.

as for the table, I've attached a photo. The lights are inside and I'd call it more of a table/chamber hybrid but hey, I've been following your advice (mostly) from the start so... what do you think? New house time?

 

[Tom]

eek!
I was hoping to NOT hear that but I'll get them separated tomorrow.

They get Calcium every couple days and they also have a cuttlebone that has some beak marks from being chewed on, but I've never seen them touch it.

I have two UVB lights, both are LED and I have one of each for the spectrums - just because i bought the wrong one first.

as for the table, I've attached a photo. The lights are inside and I'd call it more of a table/chamber hybrid but hey, I've been following your advice (mostly) from the start so... what do you think? New house time?

I can see the plexiglass covered front part, but I can't tell what is going on with the wooden back part and the over head beam. If the lights are closed in that back portion, then this functions as a closed chamber and not a tortoise table, which is good. The only measure that matters is what your hygrometer/thermometer says. If humidity is staying 80 or higher, and temps are 80 degrees or higher, you should be good.

LEDs don't produce UV. Maybe post pics of your lightbulbs or their packaging? I'd reduce the calcium sprinkle to twice per week.

 

[Mondo Garden]

First, I bought this:
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0836LTT1K/?tag=exoticpetnetw-20

Then, I learned about different UVB spectrums and got this https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07ZN1RT7D/?tag=exoticpetnetw-20

they're both going right now but i want to replace that with a single tube type light, like this:
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0002QI86U/?tag=exoticpetnetw-20

The beam was where I was GONNA hang a heat lamp over the uncovered table but then I read your article, so I built the back closed chamber area but left the beam on for hanging the spray bottle or whatever else.

the coolest area is often well above 70 but at night, I've seen it dip down to about there - never lower.
but the ambient temp of the whole thing is always in the 80's - sometimes hotter.

As a matter of fact, sometimes I think its too hot because if i put the gauge directly under the heating lamp on the basking stone, it can get into the 120 range but probably because the lamp is too low.

curious as to what you think about the "attempting to bite food but missing the target" thing.
also, as for separating them, do you think keeping them in the same enclosure but apart would work? like a wall or something? or should i just scrap it all and go with two separate closed chambers?