General Questions from Beginner

[Eric True]

So I live in a dorm room, and me and my buddy/roommate thought it would be cool to get a tortoise for our room (even though there's like no room for a big cage, but we made it work), and we bought a year old or so Russian Tortoise yesterday. A couple nights ago I was vigorously researching the Russian tortoise and it said they need uvb light and a heat lamp, but the woman we bought from at petsmart yesterday said the tortoise doesn't need a heat lamp or a uvb light, so we bought a heat pad that we keep under the glass terrarium thing we got for him and I'm using my desk lamp to light up the area in the cage where the heat pad is. So I guess my two main questions are

1.) Do we need to order a heat lamp and uvb light? Or are we fine as is (I'm guessing not)

2.) Are there ways to prevent the tortoise from trying to escape and flipping over? Because that is my biggest fear right now, that while at class he'll flip over and we won't be there. And we only have the big hidy cave, a big water tray/bath thing, and a food dish full of food and one plant thing plastered against the far wall, nothing in the corners

I guess I'm in the stage right now of freaking out about everything. That's why I signed up here to ask all the questions I need to. Any help is appreciated.

 

[Taylor T.]

Welcome to the forum!

Pet stores don't give good advice. They just want to sell their products. Heat mats can become too hot, and burn him because he won't understand that he needs to move. Tortoises are used to heat coming from above.

1.) Yes, you do need a UVB light of some kind. NOT a coil or loop type CFL. the two types you should use are long tube florescent bulbs, or an MVB (mercury vapor bulb).

2.) They are surprisingly good at righting themselves, but usually if they are trying to escape and flip over, it means that their enclosure is too small.

Did the pet store sell you a 'Repti Ramp' or equivalent water bowl? If so, it is not intuitive for tortoises go up the ramp to get water. Instead, just go to a garden center, and get a terra cotta plant saucer, and sink the dish down to substrate level.

Could post pictures of your enclosure? What are you using for substrate?

Don't freak out. You did the logical thing, you went to the pet store. You would think that the pet store would give good advice, but that's unfortunately not the case.

 

[Eric True]

 

[Eric True]

Welcome to the forum!

Pet stores don't give good advice. They just want to sell their products. Heat mats can become too hot, and burn him because he won't understand that he needs to move. Tortoises are used to heat coming from above.

1.) Yes, you do need a UVB light of some kind. NOT a coil or loop type CFL. the two types you should use are long tube florescent bulbs, or an MVB (mercury vapor bulb).

2.) They are surprisingly good at righting themselves, but usually if they are trying to escape and flip over, it means that their enclosure is too small.

Did the pet store sell you a 'Repti Ramp' or equivalent water bowl? If so, it is not intuitive for tortoises go up the ramp to get water. Instead, just go to a garden center, and get a terra cotta plant saucer, and sink the dish down to substrate level.

Could post pictures of your enclosure? What are you using for substrate?

Don't freak out. You did the logical thing, you went to the pet store. You would think that the pet store would give good advice, but that's unfortunately not the case.

Thanks for the help, I posted a picture of the home we're keeping him in on the thread, and I'll make sure we get the UVB light source.

 

[Aeva]

Hello Eric and welcome. You found the right place o get help. They will all appear soon ! I'm new here too, but it seems your "big water tray/bath thing" is too high and need to be at same level as the substrate ! Good luck with your tort, and nice enclosure !

 

[Tom]

Hello and welcome.

Stuffing a tortoise that needs a lot of room to roam is not "making it work". That might be making it work for your needs, but not the tortoises.

I'm sorry that the pet store gave bad info to you, but you are going to need to make some changes if you want to keep the tortoise. Also, it is very unlikely that the tortoise you bought is only one year old. Petsmart sells wild caught tortoises that must be over 4". Your tortoise is likely to be 5-10 years old, but we can only guess. I would hope that after you learn what is needed, you will go back to that pet store and have a conversation with the manger and employee. If you don't, they will keep doing what they did to you to everyone who walks through the door. Looks like the only thing they got right was the substrate and the little cave. The tank, the bowl, the heat pad are all wrong. Looks like you have the ZooMed Grassland food there? That is an okay supplemental food to mix with greens, but few russians will just walk up and eat it plain like that. Those ramped bowl are actually a flipping/drowning hazard and it should be removed ASAP. You can soak the tortoise daily in a tub or sink until you have time to go get a terra cotta saucer. You also need a basking lamp ASAP. Your tortoise needs an indoor "sun" to warm up under. They can go without UV for a couple of weeks while you sort everything else out. This is all explained in the threads below.

Here is the correct care info:
http://www.tortoiseforum.org/threads/beginner-mistakes.45180/
http://www.tortoiseforum.org/threads/russian-tortoise-care-sheet.80698/

Please feel free to ask lots of questions. We want to help.

 

[Eric True]

Hello and welcome.

Stuffing a tortoise that needs a lot of room to roam is not "making it work". That might be making it work for your needs, but not the tortoises.

I'm sorry that the pet store gave bad info to you, but you are going to need to make some changes if you want to keep the tortoise. Also, it is very unlikely that the tortoise you bought is only one year old. Petsmart sells wild caught tortoises that must be over 4". Your tortoise is likely to be 5-10 years old, but we can only guess. I would hope that after you learn what is needed, you will go back to that pet store and have a conversation with the manger and employee. If you don't, they will keep doing what they did to you to everyone who walks through the door. Looks like the only thing they got right was the substrate and the little cave. The tank, the bowl, the heat pad are all wrong. Looks like you have the ZooMed Grassland food there? That is an okay supplemental food to mix with greens, but few russians will just walk up and eat it plain like that. Those ramped bowl are actually a flipping/drowning hazard and it should be removed ASAP. You can soak the tortoise daily in a tub or sink until you have time to go get a terra cotta saucer. You also need a basking lamp ASAP. Your tortoise needs an indoor "sun" to warm up under. They can go without UV for a couple of weeks while you sort everything else out. This is all explained in the threads below.

Here is the correct care info:
http://www.tortoiseforum.org/threads/beginner-mistakes.45180/
http://www.tortoiseforum.org/threads/russian-tortoise-care-sheet.80698/

Please feel free to ask lots of questions. We want to help.

Sorry, my intention was never to stuff the tortoise, I simply wasn't 100% sure, and like I'm sure a lot of new pet owners do, they believe everything they're told. I really appreciate the advise though, I will speak to my rooommate about this whenever I get back to my dorm room. I will make whatever changes are necessary because I want to make the tortoise as comfortable as I can. And to be honest, I don't really care too much about how old it is, I knew they were probably wrong, because they didn't really know either

 

[Eric True]

I suppose another question in need to ask is,

What tank would be better down the road when we have a bit more money. After reading up on a few articles on proper tanks for tortoises, I knew we messed up with the cage (we're excited beginners, what can I say?). So any website, or exact tortoise homes would be much appreciated.

 

[Yvonne G]

Glass tanks are way too expensive. You can get two of the largest plastic tubs you can find and tie them together somehow. Some folks make a hole and insert a large PVC through the hole, some cut off opposing ends and put them together that way. Some people buy used book cases, take out the shelves, lay it on its back and go from there. Space in your dorm room is your only limitation.

 

[Taylor T.]

A tank large enough for an adult Russian would be very expensive. A much cheaper option would be to get several Rubbermaid or equivalent storage bins, cut holes in the sides of them, and build a tunnel connecting them together.

 

[Taylor T.]

Glass tanks are way too expensive. You can get two of the largest plastic tubs you can find and tie them together somehow. Some folks make a hole and insert a large PVC through the hole, some cut off opposing ends and put them together that way. Some people buy used book cases, take out the shelves, lay it on its back and go from there. Space in your dorm room is your only limitation.

Oops, we posted at the same time!

 

[Eric True]

So our tank right now is too small? And those are both really good suggestions, thank you for the ideas. Me and my roommate are both poor right now so I'll need to build up money again before I spend big bucks on a whole new set up. Should I disconnect the heating pad since it could be a hazard? If it was up to me, we would have waited to get the tortoise but we were overly excited. But I guess we did everything wrong

 

[Yvonne G]

I totally get it. I'm exuberant about my tortoises too. Yes, get rid of the heating pad. Russian tortoises don't need all that heat. Just a good overhead UVB light.

Russian tortoises come from an area of very sparse vegetation (read food), so they are hard-wired to wander great distances looking for food. It won't matter to him that you've provided a nice big pile of food. He just feels the need to wander. So a small aquarium is just not a good fit.

 

[Eric True]

So what should my next steps be, that way I know what to do and when. I'm glad I asked here, even if I might be annoying the crap out of anyone here. But this has been both very helpful and utterly terrifying. I want to make this work, but I'm worried it won't and I really don't want the tortoise to be hurt in anyway. What should my steps be to correct my problems, and get this situation headed in the right direction?

 

[Tom]

So our tank right now is too small? And those are both really good suggestions, thank you for the ideas. Me and my roommate are both poor right now so I'll need to build up money again before I spend big bucks on a whole new set up. Should I disconnect the heating pad since it could be a hazard? If it was up to me, we would have waited to get the tortoise but we were overly excited. But I guess we did everything wrong

The reason we point out what is less than ideal is to help people understand what needs to be done. You should not feel bad in any way about all of this. You went to what seems like it should be a reliable source of info (The Pet Store), and you got bad advice. Not your fault. You tried to do the right thing. We don't want to make you feel awful, but we have to explain what is wrong and how to make it right. We want to help you have a happy experience and a healthy tortoise. Its great that you are excited about your new pet!

 

[Eric True]

The reason we point out what is less than ideal is to help people understand what needs to be done. You should not feel bad in any way about all of this. You went to what seems like it should be a reliable source of info (The Pet Store), and you got bad advice. Not your fault. You tried to do the right thing. We don't want to make you feel awful, but we have to explain what is wrong and how to make it right. We want to help you have a happy experience and a healthy tortoise. Its great that you are excited about your new pet!

Thank you. And I understand. I guess I primarily feel bad that I was so gullible and believed everything. But like I've said I really want this to go right. So I want to know what my next steps need to be to ensure the tortoise is happy. And I appreciate all the help I've gotten today from everyone that has replied to me. This was definitely a good decision signing up for this forum.. So what should my next steps be within the next month or less?

 

[Tom]

So what should my next steps be, that way I know what to do and when. I'm glad I asked here, even if I might be annoying the crap out of anyone here. But this has been both very helpful and utterly terrifying. I want to make this work, but I'm worried it won't and I really don't want the tortoise to be hurt in anyway. What should my steps be to correct my problems, and get this situation headed in the right direction?

This is all explained in the care sheet, but I'll make a quick version here:

1. Make a large enclosure out of plywood and 2x4s, or something similar. Make the walls about 18" tall. Build some sort of over head frame with 2x4s to hang your lamp fixture from.
2. While at the hardware store pick up two 10" terra cotta plant saucers, one for food and one for water. You'll need to sink these into the substrate.
3. Also at the hard ware store, pick up a ceramic based brooder lamp http://www.homedepot.com/p/HDX-10-1-2-in-Brooder-Clamp-Light-HD-303PDQ/204684496, a digital timer, and a 65-100 watt flood bulb.
4. In the garden section of the hardware store, get a digital thermometer/hydrometer for about $10.
5. Find a local garden center and pick up a couple of giant bags of fine grade orchid bark for about $10 each, instead of the tiny, super expensive bag that the pet store sells. Like this:
6. 
7. Go to Walmart and get a black dishwashing tub. Costs about $1.82. Flip it upside down and cut out a door hole just big enough for the tortoise. Keep the substrate under it a little more damp than the rest. For an adult russian, you might need to put a rock or brick on top of it so the tortoise doesn't push it around and move it under the heat lamp.
8. Throw a couple of large rocks or logs in for decoration.

Done! Well not done, but it will work for a while and you can fine tune over time.

Also, since this is a new tortoise and probably hasn't received good care from the wholesaler or retailer recently, I would soak the tortoise daily or every other for a few weeks to make sure the tortoise is hydrated.

 

[Eric True]

This is all explained in the care sheet, but I'll make a quick version here:

1. Make a large enclosure out of plywood and 2x4s, or something similar. Make the walls about 18" tall. Build some sort of over head frame with 2x4s to hang your lamp fixture from.
2. While at the hardware store pick up two 10" terra cotta plant saucers, one for food and one for water. You'll need to sink these into the substrate.
3. Also at the hard ware store, pick up a ceramic based brooder lamp http://www.homedepot.com/p/HDX-10-1-2-in-Brooder-Clamp-Light-HD-303PDQ/204684496, a digital timer, and a 65-100 watt flood bulb.
4. In the garden section of the hardware store, get a digital thermometer/hydrometer for about $10.
5. Find a local garden center and pick up a couple of giant bags of fine grade orchid bark for about $10 each, instead of the tiny, super expensive bag that the pet store sells. Like this:
6. View attachment 217534
7. Go to Walmart and get a black dishwashing tub. Costs about $1.82. Flip it upside down and cut out a door hole just big enough for the tortoise. Keep the substrate under it a little more damp than the rest. For an adult russian, you might need to put a rock or brick on top of it so the tortoise doesn't push it around and move it under the heat lamp.
8. Throw a couple of large rocks or logs in for decoration.

Done! Well not done, but it will work for a while and you can fine tune over time.

Also, since this is a new tortoise and probably hasn't received good care from the wholesaler or retailer recently, I would soak the tortoise daily or every other for a few weeks to make sure the tortoise is hydrated.

Thank you for the help, and sorry for making you type all that, but the help is really appreciated. I will have a thorough talk with my roommate (not really a talk, just me telling him what we need to do) And I will make sure we get all of that and start working on it. I felt uneasy with our current setup and with what the lady was saying in petsmart (she said no UV light, which made no sense to me), and that's why I asked here, because I knew I would get answers from people that knew what they were doing. We'll find a way to make it work. Thank you for the help everyone

 

[Tom]

Thank you for the help, and sorry for making you type all that, but the help is really appreciated. I will have a thorough talk with my roommate (not really a talk, just me telling him what we need to do) And I will make sure we get all of that and start working on it. I felt uneasy with our current setup and with what the lady was saying in petsmart (she said no UV light, which made no sense to me), and that's why I asked here, because I knew I would get answers from people that knew what they were doing. We'll find a way to make it work. Thank you for the help everyone

No need for apologies. We are all here to talk torts!

 

[Eric True]

I had one last question, sorry. Is this a good UV light and heat amp? It was like $20 so I didn't know if it was a good source or not. But I hope it is, because the whole cage doesn't have to be really warm right, just the spot where the tortoise can go to warm up? Everything else can be room temperature? And if this isn't, what would be a good one to get?